Changing of the Guard in Australian Golf Course Rankings?

[Ruediger Meyer]

Golf Australia Magazine released its Top 100 ranking today and apparently (my copy hasn't arrived yet) the old adage that Royal Melbourne and Kingston Heath have to top every Australian Golf Course ranking isn't anymore. Royal Melbourne is still at the top, but Kingston Heath has been pushed back to #4 by Barnbougle Dunes and Lost Farm. I kinda agree with it, but I wonder if this will be a one-time thing to sell magazines (like when Golf Digest in 2010 ranked Kingston Heath in front of Royal Melbourne) or if this will become a permanent fixture in the rankings...

[Mark_F]

It's a pity they don't publish individual ranking lists anymore.  That way we could see which clowns think Lost Farm is better than Kingston Heath.

The whole list is debased, however, by the inclusion of Ellerston.

The inclusion of judges from NSW is also highly questionable; that's akin to asking Mary Whitehouse to rank Jules Jordan's 10 finest videos.

[Adam_Messix]

Mark--

What is wrong with Ellerston?

[Ash Towe]

Kingston Heath is the second or third best course in Australia.  Only Royal Melbourne and perhaps Barnbougle are better.

[Adam_Messix]

Ash--

I agree with you, the top two in Australia are pretty easy in my mind:  Royal Melbourne West and Kingston Heath.  After that, it gets a bit trickier.  Barnbougle Dunes is great stuff and deserves all the accolades it receives.  

[Dieter Jones]

Kingston Heath and Barnbougle dunes battling it out for second behind RMW is a good fight and i'd have no problem with either coming out on top. Imagine having KH as your weekly members course and Barny as your destination golf.

 Lost farm is great but not in that class. Can't see the other Australian magazine ranking LF in the top 3.

I don't get the Ellerston issue. Are we ranking the best golf courses in the country or not. It's a golf course, its in Australia and therefore it should be ranked in the Best courses. If you want a "best courses in Australia that you might actually get to play one day" ranking then exclude it by all means from that list.

[Tom_Doak]

Dieter:

I have not been to Ellerston, so I cannot comment on it directly.

However, there are quite a few courses now which appear in one ranking or another, where the only way the panelists are able to play the course is as a "special guest" of the owner.  In the States, Shadow Creek was once the poster child for this; now that it's got its ranking, anyone can pay $500 to play it.  Places as diverse as Rich Harvest Farms and Wolf Point are in the same category.  And, with all of them, there is some suspicion that those lucky enough to be invited might either

(a)  overvalue a place that they got to play and you can't, or
(b)  be unwilling to show "bad manners" and downgrade a course where they were lucky enough to be invited.

It's also true that projects like Ellerston are unusual, in that the architect can design things that would be impractical at a regular course because of traffic issues / speed of play / etc.  In some ways, that's very cool, but it's also understandable that courses which have to rely on customers for their survival might think it's all a bit unfair.


Also, I was at Barnbougle just the other day and they had no inkling this ranking was coming, though I'm sure it's welcome news for them.  It amazes me that the Australian golf market is so price-sensitive that Barnbougle still can't charge more than $100 per round.  The professional remarked to me that if you wanted to make a week's trip, an American could choose to go to Barnbougle over Bandon Dunes and wind up paying much less for the week, even with the large airfare difference.

[Greg Gilson]

Is Barnbougle Dunes & Lost Farm (@ around US$85/round or US$120 for 36 holes) the best price/quality deal in the world?

[Tom_Doak]

Is Barnbougle Dunes & Lost Farm (@ around US$85/round or US$120 for 36 holes) the best price/quality deal in the world?

I don't know how you put a number on quality but I believe Barnbougle is the lowest-priced course in the World Top 50 by a considerable margin.  The only top-100 courses that are even close are Bethpage (if you are a NY resident) and Durban CC (at the member guest rate, with the ridiculously favorable exchange rate).

[Scott Warren]

Dieter - the other mag has put KH ahead of RMW, so I cant see why it's unlikely it could rank BLF top three!

BLF isn't nearly as consistent or "put together" as KH, but KH doesn't have a top handful to rival 4, 5, 8, 14 at BLF. Just depends what a panellist prefers.

FWIW, I ranked them RMW, BD, KH, BLF. The daylight between each becomes greater as you move down from one to four.

[Greg Gilson]

The only top-100 courses that are even close are Bethpage (if you are a NY resident) and Durban CC (at the member guest rate, with the ridiculously favorable exchange rate).

Hi Tom, Cruden Bay & North Berwick (around US$!40?) are in the ballpark as well....but you're right, Bridport's 2 Top 100 courses beside each other for US$!20 total cannot be beat...surely.

[Mark_F]

Mark--

What is wrong with Ellerston?

Adam,

Ranking Ellerston - and Capital - makes a mockery of the whole process, because it is entirely dependent upon the whim of the owners as to whether they are ranked.  Ellerston is ranked 6th this year, yet wasn't ranked two years ago, despite being more than the existential musing of Matthew Mollica.  If you are going to rank the best courses in Australia, then they should all be ranked irrespective of the owner's wishes, which then of course brings up the question of access.

When you rank courses, you are essentially comparing like for like.  Ellerston and Capital are unlike every other course in the country because they have no budget.  There is reportedly a green at Ellerston that gets washed away now and again and is rebuilt in the same place each time.  At any other club in Australia the hole would be relocated, affecting any number of other holes.  Every other course has a Superintendent who has to balance the competing demands of rounds played, budgets, member expectations, weather, staff and competing priorities - something foreign to both Ellerston and Capital.

If there is one thing which defines Australian golf courses over the last forty years however, it is how many of them have been sodomised senseless by misguided committees using blunt instruments like Thomson, Wolveridge and Perrett, Hawtree, Hartley and Cashmore.  Neither Ellerston nor Capital have to put up with well meaning but clueless fools intent on bettering their course and choosing the worst possible person to do the work.  Even Royal Melbourne decided that the inadequate Hawtree was the right man for the East course.

BLF isn't nearly as consistent or "put together" as KH, but KH doesn't have a top handful to rival 4, 5, 8, 14 at BLF.

KH doesn't have complete dogs like 9 or 17, either.  And 10 and 15 are miles better than 4.  12 is better than 8.

[Greg Gilson]

Mark, I know Ellerston is largely inaccessible to "ordinary folk". But , how is that different other than in degree, to ANGC and a bunch of the other "largely inaccessible" private clubs at the top of lots of lists? All that said, I actually know 3 people who have played Ellerston, which is more than the number of non-Tour players that I know who have played ANGC. They are both golf courses...not many people get to play them...but I would prefer them to be included in the ranking (if good enough) not excluded.

I might be missing the point?

FWIW, and I have not seen the most recent list for Oz, but I am quite comfortable with RMW, KH & BD as our Top 3. I'm glad its others' job to split hairs and put them in order.

[Mark Chaplin]

Greg ANGC is a members club like any other. I've a mate who has played it 100 times, I met a member in the summer and know many people who have played it. Ellerston is a private estate, it doesn't have members or any access other than to a few raters who cannot do as they please due to the bosses rules. It shouldn't be rated but of course the raters jump at the chance to play it so that won't happen.

[Mark_F]

Greg,

Mark summed it up pretty well. There are maybe three people who can grant access to Ellerston.  There are over 300 people who can get you on to Augusta.

If the it's a course in Australia so it should be ranked argument stands up, then why isn't Capital listed?   If we go down the road of owner's discretion, then what if Royal Melbourne had decided it didn't want to be listed when it had its drought-related issues?  It is to their credit that they didn't.  

Do you think Ellerston would want to be ranked if the same thing happened?

[David_Elvins]

In my mind I have Barnbougle comfortably ahead of Kingston Heath - and I love Kingston Heath.  Barnbougle just has too many great holes for Kingston Heath.  

I spend more time wondering if Barnbougle will ever be considered better than Royal Melbourne - easily the two best golf courses I have played/visited.  

As for Ellesrton, it's a golf course, it can be ranked.  Simple.  

[Mark_F]

As for Ellesrton, it's a golf course, it can be ranked.  Simple.  

The only thing in life that simple is the decision to build the East-West tunnel.

[Matthew Mollica]

Ellerston is a golf course designed by Australians, in Australia, maintained by Australians, and played by Australians, as well as some overseas visitors.  I know least 20 guys who have played it. Heck, you can donate $10K to Shane Warne's charity and get a game on a yearly basis. I say it should be considered. And, FWIW, I believe the ranking outside the Top 5 shows a degree of objectivity many here would never expect of those who considered it for this ranking list. The experience is unique and wonderful, yet the course was adjudged apart from this.

MM

[Ruediger Meyer]

Dieter - the other mag has put KH ahead of RMW, so I cant see why it's unlikely it could rank BLF top three!

Actually, they (Golf Digest Australia) put Royal Melbourne back on top in 2012 with Ellerston, BD, NSW and Lost Farm finishing up the Top 6. So for ranking BLF top three it has to jump even its sister course at the moment

[Mark_F]

I know least 20 guys who have played it.

That's not so strange since you only just spent a few days there with a large group of them.

[Scott Warren]

Ruediger,

I'm aware - but the horse is out of the barn.

I didn't say GD currently had KH at #1, I said it has done that. A ranking that values conditioning sufficiently that KH could usurp RMW is not one I have any interest in.

[Ruediger Meyer]

Here ist the complete list by the way:

1. Royal Melbourne West (1)
2. Barnbougle Dunes (3)
3. Lost Farm (4)
4. Kingston Heath (2)
5. NSW (5)
6. Ellerston (new)
7. Royal Melbourne East (6)
8. National Moonah (7)
9. Victoria (8 )
10. St. Andrews Beach (11)
11. Royal Adelaide (10)
12. Lake Karrinyup (14)
13. Metropolitan (9)
14. Woodlands (12)
15. The Lakes (13)
16. Commonwealth (19)
17. Newcastle (16)
18. Peninsula North (17)
19. National Old (18)
20. Links Kennedy Bay (15)
21. Barwon Heads (20)
22. Royal Queensland (26)
23. Thirteenth Beach (Beach) (22)
24. The Dunes (25)
25. Peninsula South (28)
26. Kooyonga (23)
27. Royal Sydney (21)
28. Glenelg (29)
29. The Australian (31)
30. Moonah Links Legends (24)
31. Grange West (30)
32. Portsea (32)
33. The Cut (34)
34. Joondalup (33)
35. Stonecutters Ridge (new)
36. Brookwater (36)
37. Yarra Yarra (37)
38. Bonnie Doon (new)
39. Grange East (new)
40. Elanora (39)
41. National Ocean (35)
42. Magenta Shores (27)
43. The Vintage (46)
44. Hamilton Island (38)
45. The Glades (43)
46. RACV Healesville (53)
47. Terrey Hills (50)
48. Links Hope Island (48)
49. Concord (45)
50. Spring Valley (44)
51. Huntingdale (40)
52. The Grand (51)
53. Port Fairy (54)
54. Pelican Waters (55)
55. Bonville (64)
56. Thirteenth Beach (Creek) (49)
57. The Heritage (St. John) (61)
58. The Vines (Lakes) (47)
59. Meadow Springs (62)
60. Mt.Lawley (65)
61. Avondale (68)
62. Long Island (57)
63. Settlers (Run) (56)
64. Moonah Links (Open) (41)
65. Amstel Ranfurlie (60)
66. Pacific Harbour (58)
67. Sanctuary Lakes (52)
68. Sanctuary Cove Pines (59)
69. Cranbourne (69)
70. Royal Canberra (42)
71. Pacific Dunes (72)
72. Sanctuary Cove Palms (63)
73. Kalgoorlie (79)
74. The Heritage (Henley) (85)
75. St.Michael 's (78)
76. Cottesloe (71)
77. Links Lady Bay (66)
78. Palmer Coolum (67)
79. Western Australian (74)
80. Lakelands (83)
81. Royal Perth (87)
82. Eynesbury (77)
83. Tasmania (86)
84. Sorrent (81)
85. Manly (new)
86. Sandhurst (Champions) (70)
87. Horsham (89)
88. Curlewis (new)
89. Riversdale (84)
90. Yering Meadows (Nursery) (95)
91. Capricorn (Championship) (76)
92. Twin Waters (80)
93. Indooroopilly West (new)
94. Narooma (82)
95. Arundel Hills (new)
96. Murray Downs (94)
97. Twin Creeks (75)
98. Kooindah Waters (88)
99. Brisbane (new)
100. Sun City (new)

[Scott Warren]

Interesting to isolate the NSW courses in the list -- 20 of them this time around.


5. NSW (5)
6. Ellerston (new)
15. The Lakes (13)
17. Newcastle (16)
27. Royal Sydney (21)
29. The Australian (31)
35. Stonecutters Ridge (new)
38. Bonnie Doon (new)
40. Elanora (39)
42. Magenta Shores (27)
43. The Vintage (46)
47. Terrey Hills (50)
49. Concord (45)
55. Bonville (64)
61. Avondale (68)
71. Pacific Dunes (72)
75. St.Michael 's (78)
85. Manly (new)
97. Twin Creeks (75)
98. Kooindah Waters (88)

[Mark Chaplin]

What have they done recently at Ellerston to make it leap all those other clubs to become a new entry? I thought he course was over 10 years old.

Matthew how did all these guys get on $10k to charity, friends of the owner?

Greg if you came to my house for dinner and viewed my art collection would you list it in a ranking of fine art collections?

[Mark Saltzman]

17. Newcastle (16)

How far from Sydney?

Is it a must play on a 4 night stay in Sydney where the priority is a combination of golf/sightseeing?

Am planning on playing NSWx2, BD, Lakes currently