[Sean Remington (SBR)]

FOOTBALL CAN WAIT:

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/nov/28/learning-to-play-football-right/


http://news.medill.northwestern.edu/chicago/news.aspx?id=226116


No we just need a way to get kids to the course and keep them there.

I also heard a local sports radio host / former NFL player who says his boys will not play organized football until 8th or 9th grade.  He does not feel their bodies / heads should take the punishment until they are older and more fully grown.

[John McCarthy]

No one should play football.  It cannot be played safely.

[jeffwarne]

No one should play football.  It cannot be played safely.

or drive cars

[Don_Mahaffey]

I know a little about this subject.
Here is South Texas, all able bodied boys play football.
Many are allowed to play when they are little bitties, 5-7 yrs old, then held out until they are in High School as many believe that there are too many injuries due to poor coaching and size differences because kids mature differently.

Now golf. My issue with Junior golf is that for the most part it is an industry that many try to exploit. In youth football, the dads volunteer to coach, the team as a whole raises money for equipment and expenses, and everyone in town can afford to play. Yes, equipment salesman might make some money, but for the most part, it is about the kids.

There are organized programs like that in Jr golf, but I don't see it near the same level. And if a kid shows some interest and talent, get your checkbook ready as the jr golf tour is ready and waiting to take all they can. "The road to college golf" is what you read on the banners as you drive into the course. It is hard for a working class family to enter kids into tournaments when the fee is 100+ dollars and the courses view the incoming families as revenue opportunities. I've seen it first hand.

It is just a completely different mindset between football and golf. And it is not just golf. Stick your kid on a "select" volleyball, baseball or softball team and hold on because your life is about to change with all the travel and expense. many of our youth sports have become industries.

I think Junior golf would be better if we had leagues and it was more of a team sport. Kids like being on a team. I'd love to see local youth leagues where each match was a different format. Finding a course that will let the kids play and take up space is the next problem. There is no green fee at the local football field, baseball diamond, or basketball court.

In my area, youth football is a way of life, youth golf is a money making opportunity.

[Mark Bourgeois]

Golf gets nothing. Lacrosse wins.

[BHoover]

Here in Ohio (and I have to imagine more so in the places like the Northeast and Michigan), youth hockey seems to be king. Since the NHL came to town, youth hockey has exploded. Whereas just over 10 years ago, there were very few opportunities to play hockey in Columbus, the city now has at least 5 ice rinks that are packed with kids and adults playing in organized leagues.

Golf doesn't seem to have the same appeal. Once kids get older, some of them gravitate to golf, but nowhere near the numbers that play hockey. I think Don has a great point in calling for golf to be a team game. When I played in high school, being on the golf team was special. We were very much a team. The kids I see playing now are much more individualistic than my friends and I were. Granted, we knew that college golf was not an option (unless we wanted to attend a small Division III school).

[Bob_Garvelink]

Unfortunately numbers in all youth sports are starting to drop.  Things like the Internet, facebook, twitter, and video games are causing kids to become couch potatoes.  The only thing that will increase is "virtual golf" where kids will be golfing in a video game  

[D_Malley]

"I think Junior golf would be better if we had leagues and it was more of a team sport. Kids like being on a team. I'd love to see local youth leagues where each match was a different format. Finding a course that will let the kids play and take up space is the next problem. There is no green fee at the local football field, baseball diamond, or basketball court."

http://www.pgajrleaguegolf.com/

Last year we started this program (link above).
It is a homerun for the kids
low cost and low stress format

[Charlie_Bell]

Lacrosse and soccer will continue to grow. And the rise of the specialist athlete -- as early as middle school -- will mean that more basketball, hockey, and baseball players will be too busy to play golf competitively.

The bigger obstacles to growing golf, though, are access to courses and what I suspect is the general decline in play by 20- and 30-somethings.  The family-centered upper-middle-class country club lifestyle of the previous several generations is being eroded by golf's expense and the time it takes to play.  Because of their weekend commitments to other youth sports, fewer families than ever will build their lives around the club.  And for the muni-playing folks, as Don Mahaffey pointed out, competitive golf may be pricing itself out of the market.

Golf won't die, but without a Tiger-like athlete to re-establish it as Cool, I don't see a bright future on a broad scale.  Except, perhaps, in the Far East.  

[RJ_Daley]

I don't know about Ohio, but youth hockey (5-14yrs old) isn't all that affordable.  The travel to weekend tournaments alone is costly, motels, dining, extra activities, etc.  Not to mention the various kick-in funding by parents for ice time and ever being grown out of equipment.  Travel to practice, and car pooling duties all are a major commitment by parents, which is much less in H.S. organized hockey.  It was well worth the cost and commitment for us, but your experience may vary.

But the difference in my mind with youth football and youth golf is the different types of venues.  Most all towns, villages, counties, etc, have park and rec fields for play, where the youth leagues can organize and play, from Pop Warner to other various team programs.  Unless you have a very enlightened municipality owned golf course, with a very liberal green fee or summer pass policy, I think a comparable is that youth football would have to go to formal stadium facilities to play, like having to go to a formal and private golf club or facility.

I also don't see the PGAjr link being taken up much in Robert Taylor Holmes apts, or RR 1 Keokuk IA.  Yet, even the disadvantaged by socio-economic or rural circumstances can go to a nearby ball field and play football or other community team organized sports, or pick-up games.

Personally, I don't think the wave of injury fear is being presented in proper context.  The kids are more susceptible to danger, injury and death on their bikes and many other daily activities.  My own personal youth football experience wasn't the same as some of the manner it is organized now, but my community had tackle football starting in 6th grade- 8th grade, then on to Freshman H.S. and then J.V. or Varsity 10-12th grades.  Sure there were injuries.  Plenty of broken bones, ligaments, and concussions.  I do know a couple of kids that had lifelong knee injuries.  I had broken wrists twice - still stiff and achy at times.  Mucci might say the several hits I took to the head, having been rather undersized in H.S. (believe it or not) may have effected my thinking ability now.  But, I can still count by 2s and generally add my golf score correctly within a slight margin or error.  

So, I did encourage my kid to play hockey (he wasn't interested in football) but I'd have encouraged him to play that too.  He never expressed any interest in youth golf, and if he did, it would have been the biggest issue of inconvenience getting him to the courses.  I know many of his buddies wouldn't have been able to afford golf either, not to mention logistics.  

I don't think it is a bad thing to get knocked on your ass or get a little disoriented rap in the dome now and then growing up.  Proper coach training to spot concussion symptoms and perhaps rule modification and coach seminars teaching proper techniques seem the best answer to me.  That isn't the politically correct answer anymore, it seems, but I'll take the heat for thinking that way.  

[Patrick_Mucci]

Until rounds are played in 3 hours or under, it'll be hard to hold the attention of young kids for longer periods of time.

Like boxing, football is going through a metamorphosis in terms of popularity and participation.

The risks far outweigh the rewards, especially since you don't have weight classes like you do in wrestling and boxing.

The dispersion of young athletes into the collateral sports has already begun, golf is just not the second choice as it doesn't possess the glamour of the other sports and it doesn't breed team comaraderie like the other sports

[Mike Sweeney]

Golf gets nothing. Lacrosse wins.

At Thanksgiving dinner, two of my Philadelphia nephews that played Lacrosse in high school have now joined an old dead guy country club as junior members in their twenties. Their father picked up golf later in life. The club made the numbers easy for them, and they don't enforce the cart or caddie rule for juniors. One of them is married and I think his wife plays casually and the other is single.

Golf is a great life-long game and the only problem with golf is the models need to be adjusted.

[Mark Bourgeois]

Yes, it seems a lot of athletes come to golf after their playing careers end in their chosen sport, so maybe the youth participation "issue" isn't the right problem to solve. Maybe we should aim just for exposing kids to the sport without trying to get them to stick to it.

[jeffwarne]

Yes, it seems a lot of athletes come to golf after their playing careers end in their chosen sport, so maybe the youth participation "issue" isn't the right problem to solve. Maybe we should aim just for exposing kids to the sport without trying to get them to stick to it.

Very interesting point.

Be curious to know what the patterns/statistics are for joining clubs after say 30.
Who's more likely to shell out the money for membership?--a lifelong jr golfer who may well be burnt out,( and whatever golf he plays may well be comped) or a occasional golfer as a kid who now has the money to afford it and the desire to pursue it

we certainly have plenty of the latter

[Sean Remington (SBR)]

Yes, it seems a lot of athletes come to golf after their playing careers end in their chosen sport, so maybe the youth participation "issue" isn't the right problem to solve. Maybe we should aim just for exposing kids to the sport without trying to get them to stick to it.

Mark - Great point and part of the reason I made the post.  I think there is an opportunity coming available to golf that should be taken advantage of.

[Will MacEwen]

Growth in hockey could help golf. Good hockey players seem to pick up golf very easily.

[V. Kmetz]

If leadership is interested in the durability of Golf, I think the concept of local leagues, for all ages, is something that should be encouraged, endorsed and supported as much as any advertisement/policy that is put forth by the USGA, RnA, PGA and LPGATours.

With respect to youths, many posters have been spot on that children and adolescents cotton to team sports and team achievements.

I don't know why state and district Golf Associations have so few amateur tournament events directed at team activities...by age, by class, at handicap, no handicap, medal aggregate, scrambles, pinehursts, etc. Connecticut's SGA recently had a season-long series of "One Day events" at locales dotting the state and I thought that was a superb idea to drum up interest, see other courses, and have a competition at the heart of it.  

In concept, I would see it as a blend of your local Industrial League Softball set-up/married to the golf's Dusty League concept that still exists in many districts.  Both are more often beer-bashes and social exchange than an ethereal spirit of sport, however with a bit of federal structure from a state or district GA and multiple styles of team event, I believe such an effort would yield good results.

cheers

vk

[corey miller]

My read is that in middle-class to upper middle class  areas  kids gravitate (and are pushed) toward sports that they believe they can be competitive in relative to the total population group and that they feel they can earn scholarships as well as gain college admission help?  Without this dynamic, most children with superior god-given athletic abilities would tend to play the sports that are most visible.  The NFL has some great athletes, what percent ever even  considered playing Lacrosse or our topic golf?  Do you think the same holds the other way?

 What country club parent does not like to say little Johnny is the third ranked tiddlywinks player in the state? If the NCAA offered more more golf  scholarships I suspect more kids would play golf.  Short of that, it is not a decision many superior athletes are making.

[jeffwarne]

My read is that in middle-class to upper middle class  areas  kids gravitate (and are pushed) toward sports that they believe they can be competitive in relative to the total population group and that they feel they can earn scholarships as well as gain college admission help?  Without this dynamic, most children with superior god-given athletic abilities would tend to play the sports that are most visible.  The NFL has some great athletes, what percent ever even  considered playing Lacrosse or our topic golf?  Do you think the same holds the other way?

 What country club parent does not like to say little Johnny is the third ranked tiddlywinks player in the state? If the NCAA offered more more golf  scholarships I suspect more kids would play golf.  Short of that, it is not a decision many superior athletes are making.

Incredibly sad that middle and upper class kids would see a scholarship as the driving force behind choosing to play ANY sport.
Like to think there's some passion for the game  (whatever it is ) in there.
Someone who has limited financial options, I totally get it, even if it is often misguided to the detriment of academics.

[Mike Sweeney]

If the NCAA offered more more golf  scholarships I suspect more kids would play golf.  Short of that, it is not a decision many superior athletes are making.

It is actually interesting that there are 6 scholarships allowed by the NCAA for women's golf, and only 4.5 for men's:

http://www.juniorgolfscoreboard.com/ss_4_archive.asp?passsskID=24

Football really screws up the NCAA  

Reality is for many of the niche sports - swimming, tennis, golf, squash…. playing on a high school team is a detriment to playing in college because the local competition is not high enough. They would rather focus on regional and national tournaments….

[Mark Bourgeois]

Reality is for many of the niche sports - swimming, tennis, golf, squash…. playing on a high school team is a detriment to playing in college because the local competition is not high enough. They would rather focus on regional and national tournaments….

Add soccer and lacrosse, at least for most parts of the country, to your list. Some high-level soccer clubs bar their participants from playing on high school teams. Shoot, even basketball seems headed in that direction, with AAU taking over.

[Wade Whitehead]

It's easy to forget one very important factor when comparing golf to other sports: Golf is really, really hard.

A football player has teammates to make up for his mistakes, which he makes often.  A baseball player only bats three or four times in a game.  The golfer is faced with consequences on every shot.

Especially for kids who can't hit the ball in the air, golf is no fun.  It's very difficult and requires a perseverance that many parents simply don't expect from their children.

WW

[jeffwarne]

It's easy to forget one very important factor when comparing golf to other sports: Golf is really, really hard.

A football player has teammates to make up for his mistakes, which he makes often.  A baseball player only bats three or four times in a game.  The golfer is faced with consequences on every shot.

Especially for kids who can't hit the ball in the air, golf is no fun.  It's very difficult and requires a perseverance that many parents simply don't expect from their children.

WW

No question-can't hide a bad golfer at second base or right field

[RJ_Daley]

It's easy to forget one very important factor when comparing golf to other sports: Golf is really, really hard.

A football player has teammates to make up for his mistakes, which he makes often.  A baseball player only bats three or four times in a game.  The golfer is faced with consequences on every shot.

Especially for kids who can't hit the ball in the air, golf is no fun.  It's very difficult and requires a perseverance that many parents simply don't expect from their children.

WW

Try hiding a sub par performance in wrestling.    But, that sport attracts a whole different kind of athlete.  I can't think of any wrestlers that got hooked on golf.  I just changed MDs to a guy that was a top Iowa State wrestler.  We were talking about exercise (can't imagine why   ) and I mentioned I try to play golf and walk the course 2-3X a week.  You should have seen his eyes roll.    I told him I was an advid wrestler in H.S. and ranged from 127-145 over three years in H.S.   He shook his head and asked if they have heavy weight flights in golf.    I then got the lecture about doing something truly aerobic 45mins a day.    

Golf won't attract any wrestlers looking to avoid cauliflower ears.  

[John Kavanaugh]

In junior tournament golf you have two choices. Either be a cheat or a snitch. There are a thousand great ball strikers for every golfer that knows the rules. You would thnk the recent accusations against Tiger would lead to rules everyone could understand. Not going to happen until the secret enclave of power hungry officials step away from the game.

Both my sons gave up the game because they weren't going to cheat or snitch on the kids who did.

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