[Patrick_Mucci]

Archie,

Go to Historicaerials.com and see when and if the bunker and/or fairway was introduced or altered.

In the NYC area, HA.com goes back to 1931, hopefully, the same dates will apply to PCC.

Good luck

[JESII]

In truth...what this hole structure misses today (versus originally I'd guess) is the potential for a skyline fairway...sort of.

Look at Kevin's first picture of the tee shot. They planted a handful of trees to act as a buffer from the new nine. I suspect they also built up the hillside the trees are planted on. If the trees were eliminated, the slope down that hill were returned and fairway cut 20 or 30 yards wider down the right the golfer would have to learn to control their ball off the tee to get into the ideal position (right side of the fairway) to approach this really cool green complex.

As it is, with the issues on the right, the golfer's attention is (and has to be) pulled back to the left...and this bunker you hate so much. Lose the build up and trees to the right and the bunker can go...otherwise it has to stay to create any interest.

[Joe Bausch]

From TL:

As a preface, I'd have to go back to the files to determine if "some" work done by Flynn (or perhaps Maxwell), including #14, was intended to be prep work for the 1939 US Open to toughen the course. I think I can say with pretty fair assurance that the par was reduced on the course for the 1939 Open to par 69. I believe that was the only time a US Open was played at par 69.  

[John Burnes]

To TL:

I think you take one stroke from #6, but where was the other stroke taken to get to 69?  I know they took one from today's 18, and dramatically decreased the length of today's #1, just not sure about the remaining stroke.
  

[JESII]

Wild guess...but any chance today's 15 was a par 4 from a tee closer to the 14th green?

[archie_struthers]

 

Now we're talking !  The more I hear the more I believe this bunker was just something to jazz up the hole for the U.S. Open .
It was a bad idea. As to Jim's query , if it was all fairway over the bunker it would certainly be better , but would only serve to make the hole easier for the strongest of players.

 The left rough gets really gnarly in season , so the bunker makes little sense. Anything to tempt the big boys to try to cut the yardage and risk a bad lie in the rough works for me. Why let them get lucky to hit it in a "hazard" and most likely have an easier shot?

Hope Joe and Powell can confirm the bunker didn't exist prior to the Open "tune-up" . It will make the case for removing it so much better.

[archie_struthers]

   


If you get a cut lie in the left rough, which you do, and it doesn't work to this green , why dissuade anyone from hitting it there. It's a subtle killer, the perfect trap . So let them smash it there and get a flyer cut lie to a green that doesn't accept it.  It's so simple .

The hole would aesthetically be much more pleasing without the bunker . Don't think there an be any argument as to that. So , if it's sneaky hard and prettier without the bunker , and it actually benefits the expert to be in it , why leave it ?

[Powell Arms]

Unfortunately, historic aerials for this location of Philly Country only goes back to ca 1938.  And the hole looks the same as it does now.  Hagley doesnt seem to have anything.  So the best information I have is from TP's book.  In that, it appears that the changes to 14 (then 1) were done specifically as a tune up for the US Open, since those changes were not even proposed by Flynn to the club until July of 1938.

[Joe Bausch]

Is this aerial from the Dallin collection (Oct 1938) showing that bunker under construction?

[Powell Arms]

Is this aerial from the Dallin collection (Oct 1938) showing that bunker under construction?

Sure looks like it. 

Archie, it would seem that this photo cooraborates the research behind Tom & Wayne's book, that this bunker was installed om response to the 39 US Open.  I'd still love to learn how they got to par of 69.

Personally, I do think it would be a better hole if there was a bit of fairway over the bunker, as the above aerial and Flynn drawings show. (Note that this aerial appears very similar to the Flynn modification drawings.)

[mike_malone]

Can that be the bunker removed versus under construction?

[Powell Arms]

Can that be the bunker removed versus under construction?

Removed would be in the 2014 aerial Archie dreams of!  

I doubt it would be showing it removed, because the timeline seems to show Flynn proposing it, along with other changes, and getting approval in July 1938.

Oh, and separately, par 69 was achieved by playing current 6 as a par 4 and playing current 12 as a par 4. 12 had a forward tee behind the 11th green, which makes sense. The walk from 11 green to current 12 tee is the most awkward part of the current routing.

[archie_struthers]

   


Powell , thanks so much for the research , no doubt it would make more strategic sense if the bunker had fairway around or behind . However , I'm not changing my opinion that it should be removed .  It's just plain  ugly from the tee box  . The other strategic reasons have been recounted numerous times in my apoplectic" outbursts regarding the SOB !

Thanks all !

[JNagle]

Archie, it would seem that this photo cooraborates the research behind Tom & Wayne's book, that this bunker was installed om response to the 39 US Open.  I'd still love to learn how they got to par of 69.

The Club along with then pro Ed Dudley and his assistants were able to play the 12th and 8th holes with ease even during adverse weather conditions.  It was determined that the holes would be "excellent" par 4's.  Dudley and his assistants, although long hitters did not compare to the pro's who would be playing in the Open as so it was thought they could reach the green with a drive spoon.  Memorandum from Club July 1939.  In 1937 Flynn toured the course with suggested changes, some of which did include new tees and bunkers on a few holes.

"The Association is not making its first effort to halt the onslaught on "par".  It changed the regulations for the ball, but manufacturer's met the change by introducing a ball capable of being driven farther.  General Improvement of equipment has stimulated low scoring.

The 8th hole at Spring Mill, formerly a par 5, has been made a 479 yard par 4, and although even now long hitters will be able to reach the green with a drive and perhaps a No. 3 iron, the unit has been so trapped it will prove probably the most difficult of the eighteen.

No. 12 is the other hole to undergo a change.  Formerly a par 5, it is now a par 4, which should force to good woods from any contestant.  It now measures 480 yards, but the player will find his second shot must play to a green nestling at the top of a decided slope."    Evening Public Ledger - January 4, 1939


July 12th, 1938 William Flynn toured the course and made recommendations for improvements to the course.

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