[Ally Mcintosh]

Initiated by the "crossing holes" thread which focused on modern examples (Doonbeg being the best I know of)...

My favourite "dangerous" shot on a golf course is the second on Klondyke at Lahinch.... Walking off 18th tee is entirely putting your life in to the lap of the Gods as people ping 3 woods at you from behind a blind dune...

[Anders Rytter]

7-11 on old course
Isn't 4th green on North Berwick fairly close to 14th?

[Tyler Kearns]

When citing examples from old courses, is it fair to assume that while they may infringe upon some design rules of thumb they nonetheless work over time?  What I am trying to say is that if they were indeed dangerous, the golf courses in question would have rectified the problem many moons ago.  Once a safety issue arises and is well known, it would seem incumbent upon the golf course to improve the situation.

TK

[Mark Pearce]

I couldn't help but be a little scared around the 10th at Leven.

[Bill_McBride]

7-11 on old course
Isn't 4th green on North Berwick fairly close to 14th?

To the tee shot off 14th tee if it's pretty far right. 

[mike_beene]

The last 4 holes at Prestwick are the most disconcerting I have played from a balls flying everywhere standpoint.

[Mark Pearce]

7-11 on old course
Isn't 4th green on North Berwick fairly close to 14th?

To the tee shot off 14th tee if it's pretty far right. 

Not too far right to be dangerous, particularly with a good left to right wind.

[Sean_A]

I think Ally's suggestion of Lahinch is spot on.  Whenever I have been there there was a marshall to direct traffic or one of our group was sent to the top to direct traffic.

The 10th at Leven is very dangerous, but Leven isn't a great course - its a long way short of that.

The 18th at N Berwick is very dangerous with the car park on the right.  

Deal's 1st is fairly dangerous with the road on the 1st hole.

Old Town's 3rd is quite dangerous with the car park behind the green.

Ganton's 18th is pretty dangerous with a blind road cutting the fairway off. The Sacred 9's ninth is the same.  The first hole is probably more dangerous with the road down the right.  

Ciao

[Jim Sherma]

The double green at Crail. Small area with balls coming from different angles. Can't remember the hole numbers off the top of my head, a member told me that they call it their amen corner, if you get through that stretch without being hit you say amen.

[Dan Herrmann]

I'm a bit afraid of heights, and the cliffs at Bandon, when you get too close, can be a bit disconcerting to my type.  

[Jim Nugent]

Dan, I take it you have no trips planned in the near future for Cape Kidnappers...

[Mark Pearce]

The double green at Crail. Small area with balls coming from different angles. Can't remember the hole numbers off the top of my head, a member told me that they call it their amen corner, if you get through that stretch without being hit you say amen.

Really?  I'm a member and can't say it has ever occurred to me that there's any danger there.  The two hole locations are always at least 40 yards away.  Occasionally whilst putting on 8 a ball might roll up to you from 11 but that's about it.  To endanger anyone on 8 a ball would have to carry 30/40 yards past the pin on 11.  To endanger a player on 11 an approach on 8 would have to land pin high but 40 yards right.  Just not a problem in my experience.

[Thomas Dai]

The railway line alongside the 1st at Prestwick and the 11th at Troon are two examples on 'great' courses that come to mind. Many other lesser courses also have railway 'issues' including using level-crossings to get to the course/clubhouse. Potential revenue opportunities for ambulance chasers?

All the best

[Jeff Johnston]

reading the thread title Ally the Klondyke / 18th scenario at Lahinch came straight into my thoughts - great minds...!

a couple of years ago at Portrush I hit a squirty approach right on 18 and had the disconcerting experience of watching my ball tracking straight towards my own motor in the car park - thankfully it pulled up just the right side of the fence....as a kid I also narrowly avoided hitting a BMW on the adjacent coast road with a shot to the 18th on the Town course at Portstewart (big wind off the sea in my defence) - not heard many claims for greatness for the Portstewart Town course though....

[Lyne Morrison]

Ally,

There is a public road intersecting the Plateau hole at NGLA.

Lyne

[Matt OBrien]

14 Green/15 Tee at oakmont...Feels like your standing on the putting green as you tee off.

[Bill_McBride]

I'm a bit afraid of heights, and the cliffs at Bandon, when you get too close, can be a bit disconcerting to my type.  

What did you think of the eighth at Pebble Beach when you first saw it in person?   

[Mark McKeever]

Personally I think the below holes are cool and unique.  But they do fit the bill of slightly less than safe....


5 at Rockaway Hunt Club - A road basically circles the green on 2 sides
17 tee at St. Georges Golf Club - Right in the line of fire for a low pull from 18 tee
10 at Philadelphia Cricket Club - It's VERY easy to yank it left into the parking lot
17 at Berkleigh Golf Club - Front entrance comes in right into the line of fire for tee shots on 17

[Jim Sherma]

The double green at Crail. Small area with balls coming from different angles. Can't remember the hole numbers off the top of my head, a member told me that they call it their amen corner, if you get through that stretch without being hit you say amen.

Really?  I'm a member and can't say it has ever occurred to me that there's any danger there.  The two hole locations are always at least 40 yards away.  Occasionally whilst putting on 8 a ball might roll up to you from 11 but that's about it.  To endanger anyone on 8 a ball would have to carry 30/40 yards past the pin on 11.  To endanger a player on 11 an approach on 8 would have to land pin high but 40 yards right.  Just not a problem in my experience.

What struck me as dangerous was the fact that the shot coming in on 11 was for a short reachable par 5 (493), if not blind at least uphill and not visually real open. I remember hitting 5-wood in downwind and going past the pin deep into the green. As I got up towards the green and saw the angle of approach relative to the 8th green along with where the 9th and 12th tees were I was amazed and thought that this would never be allowed in the US. There was no deterrent to banging at the green as the penalty for going long is running out into the 8th green's putting surface. The quote was from in the bar afterwards over some drinks after I brought it up with some of the locals.

[Mark Pearce]

The approach is steeply uphill.  Even with a following wind, when the hole is very reachable in two, the only way to play the second is to land just short of the green.  A ball may well, if the approach is misjudged, roll to or past the flag on 8 but I have never seen a ball carry anywhere near halfway to the 8th flag.  You might get hit by a rolling ball but it's not dangerous in any real sense of the word.  I have never heard a member suggest there's any danger there.  Indeed, if there is a dangerous spot on Balcomie, the 11th and 12th fairways,  the 14th green, 15th fairway and 16th tee are all better candidates!

[Joe Bausch]

10 at Philadelphia Cricket Club - It's VERY easy to yank it left into the parking lot

No way!

[RJ_Daley]

I take it they fixed or secured the cart path at Mesquite, where there were people going down the switchback hairpin hill, and lost control - on resulting in a death, IIRC.

[John Percival]

Any hole with a road in proximity.
For example, #1 at Trump LA. Short four par (too difficult for most as an opener with the water fronting and backing). Played w/ a friend who is an 'average' golfer. Hit a dead pull that ran directly up the middle of the road and bounced forever. Fortunately, no vehicles were entering at the time.

Actually, Trump LA has many tight/uncomfortable holes. Maybe due to the course being expanded from its originals?

But, the worst potential I have seen is at Bayonne on #2. Not the crossing element with 8, as they are close and easy to monitor. No, the danger is a pull/hook that tracks toward the third green. VERY dangerous. Would be interesting to know if anyone has been plunked and how seriously.

[Alex Miller]

The approach is steeply uphill.  Even with a following wind, when the hole is very reachable in two, the only way to play the second is to land just short of the green.  A ball may well, if the approach is misjudged, roll to or past the flag on 8 but I have never seen a ball carry anywhere near halfway to the 8th flag.  You might get hit by a rolling ball but it's not dangerous in any real sense of the word.  I have never heard a member suggest there's any danger there.  Indeed, if there is a dangerous spot on Balcomie, the 11th and 12th fairways,  the 14th green, 15th fairway and 16th tee are all better candidates!

Can confirm. Had to yell "Fore" off of the 12th tee, but the double green did not strike me as dangerous at all. The tee shot on the 2nd is also somewhat dangerous with the the bailout being the 12th fairway.

Any hole with a road in proximity.
For example, #1 at Trump LA. Short four par (too difficult for most as an opener with the water fronting and backing). Played w/ a friend who is an 'average' golfer. Hit a dead pull that ran directly up the middle of the road and bounced forever. Fortunately, no vehicles were entering at the time.

Actually, Trump LA has many tight/uncomfortable holes. Maybe due to the course being expanded from its originals?

John, with respect, Trump LA is not a great course and IMO opinion not even a good one. The course is dangerous on many holes, but the 1st wouldn't be one I'd include. The fairway is 80 yards wide and it's the widest landing area on the course. Also, for what it's worth, the course was barely expanded from how it was originally (maybe 10 yards on average, but mostly rough being converted to fairway, not widening the amount of turf by much at all).

[John Percival]

Alex,
Ur right, T-LA is not a great course. As i was reading through the threads, lost track of the 'great' element.
Do differ on #1, though. Any ball in a road is an issue, even an entry road.

BTW, r u local in SoCal? If so, what is going on with T-LA? Is there ever a chance that place will turn a profit? How the hell does he keep his publics afloat?

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