Winged Foot being toughened for Open

[Evan_Green]

I played at Winged Foot today and got to see some of the new tees being added for the 06 US Open and all I can say is wow! The course is going to mop the floor with the pros. For example #9, being converted to a par 4 as usual, but now it will be played for 510 or 515 yds- the first par 4 over 500 yds in an Open- also on #12 100 yds is being added to lengthen the hole to 630 yds! Going to be the longest open course ever- even more so than Bethpage- I am predicting an over par winning score.

What a great golf course- the course looks really good after some of the trees were thinned out-I'm sure tillinghast would be thrilled with the way its now setup- theyve done a great job there modernizing the course without fundamentally changing it.

[JakaB]

That is great news and a refreshing attitude...

[Chris Perry]

I think tour pros have already proven that length is of no consequence to them, it's deep rough and tough greens/pin placements that will bring scores up.

Really if they wanted to lengthen courses without moving any dirt at all they would make them stow the drivers and use 3 woods or 2 irons off the tees, or go back to the ol' gutta percha, but that wouldn't help boost equipment sales now would it?  

[Scratch_Nathan]

Evan -  talked to a friend yesterday who is a WF member and he estimated the cost of the work on the #12 West tee at two million!  They've been working on it for such a long time and cleared so much dense woodland, I guess it's possible.  What do you think?  If it brings that pronounced hump in the fairway back into the landing area for the bombers, that will be fantastic.

[Steve Lapper]

Evan -  talked to a friend yesterday who is a WF member and he estimated the cost of the work on the #12 West tee at two million!  They've been working on it for such a long time and cleared so much dense woodland, I guess it's possible.  What do you think?  If it brings that pronounced hump in the fairway back into the landing area for the bombers, that will be fantastic.

That # is the cost for the irrigation, tree removal and dirt moving for 12....not just for the tee.

[juventusatlanta]

The thought of this course being "toughened up" is, well, uh, scarry.  The new tees added on 2, 9 and 12 will certainly add to the already immense challenge, but the basic character of this course, as pointed out earlier, continues to prevail and is what makes this a great Major Championship golf course.

There's also been a lot of work over the past few years to drive deeper the root system on the greens and they are putting beautifully now - hard and fast.  They've also done a fair amount of tree trimming work to promote better air circulation, which makes for some cool scenery as well.  Note the green on # 3 where the newly trimmed trees in the back of the green make you feel like you are in a golfing amphitheater.

In addition to the Open in '06, the Amateur next year will be very interesting.  As usual, the weather will be a huge factor.  If there's a lot of rain and the course is soft, then, as anywhere, scores will be lower.  But, if conditions are normal, then, look out!

[MDoetsch]

I am a member of Winged Foot and whoever guessed that the cost of the new tee on 12 was 2 million is an IDIOT!  

[Nigel_Walton]

Perhaps if your illustrious fellow member Mr Trump had overseen the construction, you could have spent two million dollars! You just might have ended up with waterfalls on either side of the tee.

[Scratch_Nathan]

Tell us how you really feel...."is an Idiot!"

Perhaps when my friend mentioned the 2 mil for the tee, he left out everything else that all those zeros paid for.  I never thought a tee could cost that much, but, hey, I could also see WF spending whatever it takes to reach a stated objective.

[MDoetsch]

Sorry to come on so strong. We actually have an annual report that spells out the costs of projects, so that member doesn't open his mail.

There is a lot of Monday morning quarterbacking going on since we have had so many projects underway at the same time. Can't wait until it's all done.

[Scratch_Nathan]

It wouldn't surprise me if my buddy doesn't open all his WF mail.  I've heard members get a piece of mail from the club nearly every single day!

[Evan_Green]

Whatever the club is paying for #12 it seems well worth it to me, because when its done that is going to be one hell of a great long par 5.

[Tommy_Naccarato]

I wll say this about Winged Foot-West & East:

It is without doubt one of the finest courses I have been on. I think the bunker restoration that is being overseen by Tom Fazio is as first class of a job as they should have gotten from the man, and I think you all know how I feel about that.

Winged Foot and its membership seems to get it, at least by what I can tell, and the greens are magical. The putting surface on the famed #10 West is pure unadulterated evil.

Who cares about the Open! I care more about how great this club has taken care of their golf course!

[Patrick_Mucci]

Tommy Naccarato,

I hate to disagree with you on this one, but I will.

I was not enamored with the bunker work by Fazio.

The tree clearing, irrigation project and new tees will all benefit Winged Foot, which remains a remarkable golf course and test for every level of player.

Scratch Nathan,

Common sense must not be so common.
How could you believe it cost $ 2,000,000 for a tee extension?
How could your friend make such an inflamatory statement ?
Do you really feel that any member would endorse or vote for that type of expenditure ?

MDoetsch,

You did not come on too strong.

Your reaction is in line with the absurdity of the statement or rumor, which is destructive in nature.

[Mike_Cirba]

Patrick;

Could you elaborate on what you don't like about the bunker restoration at WF?  

Is it aesthetic, functional, or both?

I've never been there (sadly), so I have nothing to compare it to, but I surely find it interesting that you and Tommy had differing opinions, and not in the way I would have suspected.

Thanks!

[Patrick_Mucci]

Mike,

In a nutshell, I don't like the elevated foot pad with the bunker cut into it, to enhance visibility.

I also think the shape of some of the bunker makes playability difficult, especially for the members, who will be playing the golf course for years to come, long after the pros depart.

I immediately thought of the phrase "lighthouse bunkers".

[Mike_Cirba]

Patrick;

Within the club, are they terming the bunker work a "restoration", or a "modernization"?  

The emphasis on visibility you mentioned sounds like the latter.  

Tommy;

What's your take?  As a frequent critic of Fazio's work on classic courses in the past, what did you find exemplary about his work at WF?  

Thanks, fellas!

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Mike,
Unlike so many others, I felt that Winged Foot had all of the curves, twist and turns of what characterize a good looking bunker. Now it doesn't have that Jeff Bradley/Bunker Guru-look I really like, but these are really well done. They simply look like and what's even best--play like Tillinghast bunkers.

Now placement may be an issue to Pat, I think they are in some pretty provocative spots, but according to my sources, the bunkers were a learning process for the membership. If they didn't like the way a bunker came out, they simply started over and rebuilt it again, and again until they got it right. There was actually only one bunker I didn't care for and that was right way below the greenside at the short par 4 on the East, which # is escaping me at the moment. Other then that--they did an excellent job. (Funny how the bias accusations aren't being thrown out there, eh?)

Winged Foot was a very special surprize for me. I had no idea I was going to have the opportunity to see it, and when I did, it made me realize how much I love my Tillinghast Association membership. Some pretty awesome greens there. Some pretty awesome greens........And I haven't even said one thing about the strategy of the golf holes! Some of the strongest par 3's I have seen to date.

[noonan]

Good....hopefully we can play the 06 Open at 7700.....

The distance race is out of contol.

JK

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Noonan,
Make no mistale about it, I'm not a fan of those kinds of yardages and will stand by the theroy that Winged Foot as stands is a solid test for any form of golfer. Now, I'm sure someof the these uper himans that playprofessional tounraments today will prove me wrong when given the chance in 2005. They don't matter. It's as perfect test for gys like you and me then them anyday, and that is all that should matter.

Pat, Lighthouse bunkers? Where on good earth did you come up with that term? (Quite obviously you have been visiting Geoff Shackelford's website) However, I disagree with that terminology in regards to Winged Foot.)

[Evan_Green]

The great thing with Winged Foot is that a member can play it from 6500 and the option will now be available to play it at 7400 which certainly will be all the pros can handle- In relative terms both sets of players will be playing the same shots- it is not like the members tees are from different angles which will markedly change the character of the holes such as is the case on a lot of Nicklaus courses- whereby to play the true design you need to play the back tees otherwise the angles from the white tees make the course inferior- the angles at Winged foot are the same due to the way the tees are constructed- there is nothing wrong with courses that are as long as Winged Foot will be so long as options are available for the members (ANGC a perfect other example)

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Evan,The problemis that there are a great many people who think they can play courses like Winged Foot from 7400 yards and not have any problem. Once again, this is much like the Rustic Canyon theory that width makes it unchallenging from the tee. The only differences between RC and WF is that yes, one is extremely public and the other extremely private; Wing foot is heavily defended by bunkers around the green, where Rustic is a bit more user friendly in that regard; and finally, about three thousand trees. Does it affect width? In some cases it is meant to, but at Winged Foot, Tillie liked the fact that a lot of those old Grand Dads came into play. I do too!

Simply put, I think Winged Foot is a place where you have to think your way to the target--one shot ahead of the other--until you have to putt, and then you better know or at least have some idea of the character of each of the greens, or all hope is lost.

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Also, something I was just thinking about.......
Do any of you feel that Winged Foot is the type of course that provokes you on your approach to the green whether it be the 1st, 2nd, or 3rd shots? (Or even 4th or 5th!)

[Patrick_Mucci]

Tommy Naccarato,

Did you examine the new right side fairway bunker on # 5 ?
What do you think of that bunker ?

Do you think it looks and plays like the left side fairway bunker on # 6 ?

What did you think about the left side fairway bunker on
# 11 ?

What did you think about the raised front lip on the first right side fairway bunker on # 12 ?

Do they look like the left side fairway bunker on # 14 ?

Mike Cirba,

I have no information with respect to perspectives within the club on the bunkers.

Tommy Naccarato,

Winged Foot's greens and the approaches to them are spectacular.  It is a most demanding golf course, from any tee

[Evan_Green]

Regarding provoking approaches to the green- i dont think i've ever been more provoked to shoot at the middle of the greens at Winged Foot than at any other course- those brilliantly defended greens sure make you feel really happy to make pars