[V. Kmetz]

Jim, Lou,


I'm sorry if you're offended, if you're sorry that such a thesis (as I inveighed against with envelope-ripping vulgarity in the offending post) has to be baked into every thing Lou (and others) contribute...


And I won't do it, if he (and others) won't do it.


And please know that I heavily edited the post in question BACK from stuff (that involved a "Rusty Trombone" on the 12th tee of a Trump course), but like Patton (whom you both should love) I gave it to em' "quick and dirty" so they might not forget.


But if I (and Kalen is not the only diverse poster who has ever given me encouragement for this enjoinder and other acts of defense) hear this weak drivel posing as GCA board contribution in future, I'll flame it as nasty as I want to..white right
-wing cromagnons arent the only ones with free speech.


cheers  vk

[BHoover]

VK, before you get booted, maybe you should go ahead and share your 147 custodian thoughts now. That way, we won’t have to guess once you’re gone.

[JESII]

 

[John Kavanaugh]

It might be fun to guess VK's favorite red state course that he has played out of the 147. I'd go with Canterbury. They make a great egg.

[V. Kmetz]

VK, before you get booted, maybe you should go ahead and share your 147 custodian thoughts now. That way, we won’t have to guess once you’re gone.

OK...Hoover, check...JK...check...to go with Lou himself, Jim and ...oh yes, right Corey Miller checked in too...so I'll wait until we hear from Gib, Shivas Schmidt, some UK dandy and the ghost of Mooch and we'll have nearly all the Algonquin round table together. for a group portrait.


Please, it's a social media board...as impotent as any...as strong as it needs to be... stop whining and let us know how golfers are athletes again?

[John Kavanaugh]

VK,


I hope you are better at guessing yardages than party affiliation. Those were some strange bedfellows you put together.

[V. Kmetz]

JK,


Guesses? I just look at the 150 bushes where they still exist... I could swear you were the one who cautioned the traveler not to reveal who they voted for, for fear of having their food spit on... forgive me if that indicated a brand you were not loyal to.

[corey miller]

Funny on the party affiliation thing. 


I guess that is based on how much we feel a two-bag caddie is worth?  Or are all the people that even play at these high falutin two-bag caddie clubs obnoxious white guys?

[Jeff Loh]

VK must STAY!!!

[Lou_Duran]

I copied the extremely offensive post suspecting that the individual didn't have the stones to let it fare the disinfectant of light.  As an act of kindness, I won't re-post it.

He is a known quantity, and a rather sad one considering he makes a living by providing a service to many of the people he seems to have such antipathy for.  The dissonance must be paralyzing.  I don't want to pile on, so I will leave it with the thought that the propensity to string together vulgarities and invective does not demonstrate strength in a belief system, but perhaps betrays a deep hole in one's character and soul.  If I was oriented to communicate in that manner, I would hope my friends would intervene.

As to Kalen's comments, I will admit disappointment.  I assume that "many of us" is more than a frivolous, throw-away line, perhaps based on "research"/gossip through the site's backchannels.  In a world of 0s and 1s, I suppose it is convenient to attribute things that rhyme with one's views as proper discourse and those that don't as "incessantly" political.  He (Kalen) should not expect a Christmas card this year.  

My initial reply to MikeS could only be interpreted as containing political commentary if one has a very keen ear for dog whistles. If it is political to acknowledge that cart riders contribute more to the operations of a golf club and that we might be thankful for it, then maybe the "frank discussion" which Ran desires is impossible.

Golf and its future is very much intertwined with economics.  A large majority of frequent posters seem hell-bent on obscuring that and then whine about the game's/industry's woes.  A very elementary, but fundamental law in life is that you can't have your cake and eat it to.

And for the record, I specifically asked Ran this past summer whether he has fielded complaints about my participation on this site. After thinking for awhile, he said that he had a vague recollection of one DG member who wrote to him some time back.  If at any time one of you believes that I am detracting from the site, send me an IM and tell me how.  If I get a reasonable number from folks I consider rational and their comments have heft, I will either change my ways or, more likely, surrender my posting privileges.  Of course, I am here at Ran's will.  He doesn't even have to ask.

[V. Kmetz]

I copied the extremely offensive post suspecting that the individual didn't have the stones to let it fare the disinfectant of light.  As an act of kindness, I won't re-post it.

What does this mean...you think I took it off?

[Lou_Duran]

You didn't?  I overestimated you.

[James Brown]

So what is the best unwalkable course?  Kapalua?

[Tommy Williamsen]

This is the problem of golf in most of Asia, the Caribbean, and central / South America.  Even if the course is walkable, it's so hot and humid, nobody wants to walk ... so most courses quickly become cart courses.  Only the Japanese are walkers, because they inherited the caddie culture before World War II, and because Japan is further north and it's only too hot and humid to enjoy for a couple of months in the summer, like Atlanta.

74 degrees yesterday at Lido Golf Club, I played with two guys in their 30's who had been playing golf in their post-college life. They were both super fit, and we played in less than 4 hours. I walked and burned 1500+ calories. They took a cart and were going to the gym after the round:




The golf authorities really missed the fitness era and messaging to this demographic. They were super nice guys to play with, but if you don't want to walk a dead flat course on a breezy and 74 degree day, something is off...

I normally walk my home course. At Ballyhack I have walked the course. When I walk Ballyhack I consider it exercise. Not so much myhome course. I never really thought of walking golf as exercise. In my younger days I would walk 36 and run 6 between rounds. Running was exercize not a leisurely stroll on a golf course.

[Mike Sweeney]

I normally walk my home course. At Ballyhack I have walked the course. When I walk Ballyhack I consider it exercise. Not so much myhome course. I never really thought of walking golf as exercise. In my younger days I would walk 36 and run 6 between rounds. Running was exercize not a leisurely stroll on a golf course.

Tommy,


That is the point. We did not know, and I had similar views. Now the information is out there:


https://onpar.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/08/01/a-little-scientific-research-for-all-those-19th-hole-debates/


As one might expect, the most energy was expended while walking with a bag (721 calories burned for nine holes). But walking with a push cart was not far behind (718). Walking with a caddie burned 621 calories for nine holes, and riding in a cart still burned 411 calories on average.

On a separate but related note, it is silly that the PGA could not find a lawyer to argue that John Daly riding at Bethpage was an unfair advantage on the field. Maybe they would have lost in court, but defend the game!!



PS - One of these days, I will figure out how to post public photos on Google.

[Mike Sweeney]

MikeS,


He'll walk with me, but his preference is to ride and go do his controlled workout at his convenience.  I suspect that he won't look like me when he reaches my age.

Took roughly 10 years, but I converted my son from wanting to ride to now wanting to walk. Keep at it!!

[corey miller]

Where is the caddie?

[Mike Sweeney]

Where is the caddie?

Our Member Caddy was probably drinking a Guinness at the clubhouse!!


AM Rounds = Forecaddie, and we carried;
PM Rounds = We carried, except for Cashen @Ballybunion as the afternoon round was our only play and the caddy was/is great for storytelling and finding balls.

[Jeff Schley]

I like walking a course that is flat, but not embarrassed to say that I prefer riding if there are undulations/hills etc. I typically play with my dad who can't walk 18 due to needing a knee replacement, thus we have usually rode. I don't think anyone who prefers riding should be vilified for having that preference as this is amateur golf and recreation, whatever someone's preference is to enjoy it .... so be it IMO.

I wouldn't limit growing the game to a conditional basis of growing the walking game, although I appreciate the merits and health benefits certainly. I just returned from Ireland and both European Club and Lahinch were not flat certainly and got a good workout.
Some people actually put ketchup on their hot dogs......which I'm not sure, but in NY I think is against the law, yet they enjoy them.

[Matthew Petersen]

This is the problem of golf in most of Asia, the Caribbean, and central / South America.  Even if the course is walkable, it's so hot and humid, nobody wants to walk ... so most courses quickly become cart courses.  Only the Japanese are walkers, because they inherited the caddie culture before World War II, and because Japan is further north and it's only too hot and humid to enjoy for a couple of months in the summer, like Atlanta.

74 degrees yesterday at Lido Golf Club, I played with two guys in their 30's who had been playing golf in their post-college life. They were both super fit, and we played in less than 4 hours. I walked and burned 1500+ calories. They took a cart and were going to the gym after the round:




The golf authorities really missed the fitness era and messaging to this demographic. They were super nice guys to play with, but if you don't want to walk a dead flat course on a breezy and 74 degree day, something is off...

A couple of guys in their 30s were probably going to the gym after their round to lift weights, not to burn calories.

[Jason Topp]

Relative to JT's question, in the U.S. at least, (90%+ at my easy-to-walk 5.4 mile home course) appear to prefer riding to walking (probably a primary reason for some private clubs imposing mandatory caddie rules).  If golf is to be enjoyed as opposed to be endured, would we entrust a relative few to define greatness so narrowly?

Lou -


This is an old one.  Sorry it apparently sparked an inappropriate response.


 I still like my original premise.  To me, walking should be a reasonable option on a great course.  I have a hard time identifying an exception - maybe the version of Cabo del Sol Ocean that existed before the recent changes? 


Mandatory carts lead to a number of negatives including a course artificially designed so that holes play downhill, the worst land being used for golf while the best land is used for housing.  A walking course forces the architect to confront and deal with difficult stretches of terrain in interesting ways rather than avoiding them with a cart path.


I have no problem if people prefer to ride and intend no commentary on that front.  If I ever visit Dallas in July, you can bet that I will be looking for a cart.

[SL_Solow]

It may come as a surprise to some, but I am with Lou on this one putting aside any political commentary which may or may not exist.  I am a walking golfer.  I walk in all kinds of weather.  I think it's a better game when one walks regardless of the exercise merits and i get a better appreciation of the course when I walk.  That said, I am not about to dictate my preferences to others.  If I owned a course and could afford to forego the cart revenue, I could do so but likely wouldn't absent special circumstances like fescue grasses which might not withstand cart traffic.  Nor will I judge how and where people get, or fail to get, their exercise.


Returning to the topic, can a car ball course be great, I think we have to distinguish between the "greatness" of the course and the architectural job.  Clearly, the use of carts changes the routing issues and allows course and hole placements in areas where walking would be difficult if not impossible.  But if the play is interesting then a fair argument can be made that the resultant course is very good if not great.

[Kalen Braley]

Shelley,

Mike and Cal made a couple of harmless comments based on what they observed in a couple of casual rounds. No judgement, no Fidel'ism, no condemnation, no insistence of anything.

Lou was the one who took it to straight to Defcon 1 or 2 with political jabs and the like in ensuing posts...

[corey miller]

C'mon Kalen...I get it you don't like Lou's politics and perhaps you do not like Lou but please let's not act like that was some sort of proportionate response that occurred.  And is there some reason I am dragged into this with a few others?


 

[John Kavanaugh]

C'mon Kalen...I get it you don't like Lou's politics and perhaps you do not like Lou but please let's not act like that was some sort of proportionate response that occurred.  And is there some reason I am dragged into this with a few others?

Not only dragged in but thrown in bed with me and Hoover.

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