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Kyle Henderson

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Clear Creek Tahoe Redux: A Pictorial!!! (5th hole posted)
« on: October 20, 2013, 01:57:13 PM »
Clear Creek Tahoe – already one of my all-time favorite tracks – has been improved with a few recent tweaks.

The 1st hole was the most noticeably altered, with the creation of new back tees that extend play from the original 454 yards to around 550. The par value was also raised from “4” to “5,” which I appreciate since that tends to be the score I post from either point of origin. The hole also plays slightly downhill now from tee to green, whereas it used to climb the entire way.

Original tee shot:


New tee shot:
Now the opening drive traverses the practice green and a newly constructed foreground bunker (only ~170 yards to carry). Note the expansion of the starboard fairway border and the clearing of brush from the native areas.


New foreground bunker:


These fairway bunkers were only in play after a poor drive from the original tees, as they are set well short of the green, but they now dramatically impact the strategy of second shots.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2013, 12:30:42 AM by Kyle Henderson »
"I always knew terrorists hated us for our freedom. Now they love us for our bondage." -- Stephen T. Colbert discusses the popularity of '50 Shades of Grey' at Gitmo

Morgan Clawson

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Re: Clear Creek Tahoe Redux: A Pictorial!!!
« Reply #1 on: October 20, 2013, 02:33:02 PM »
Love how that practice green flows right into the middle tee box.

Is that the only practice green? Do you really have to hit over it from the back tees?

The positioning and angle of the pair of center bunkers reminds me of Dormie's 1st hole.

Kyle Henderson

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Re: Clear Creek Tahoe Redux: A Pictorial!!!
« Reply #2 on: October 20, 2013, 11:33:26 PM »
Love how that practice green flows right into the middle tee box.

Is that the only practice green? Do you really have to hit over it from the back tees?

The positioning and angle of the pair of center bunkers reminds me of Dormie's 1st hole.

There is another practice green near the full range just a minute up the road. The longest two sets of tees both play from close to the 550-yard mark over the pictured practice putting surface.

Haven't seen Dormie..
"I always knew terrorists hated us for our freedom. Now they love us for our bondage." -- Stephen T. Colbert discusses the popularity of '50 Shades of Grey' at Gitmo

Connor Dougherty

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Re: Clear Creek Tahoe Redux: A Pictorial!!!
« Reply #3 on: October 21, 2013, 04:00:29 AM »
Love how that practice green flows right into the middle tee box.

Is that the only practice green? Do you really have to hit over it from the back tees?

The positioning and angle of the pair of center bunkers reminds me of Dormie's 1st hole.

There is another practice green near the full range just a minute up the road. The longest two sets of tees both play from close to the 550-yard mark over the pictured practice putting surface.

Haven't seen Dormie..

Dormie has slight similarities but it's a much different hole. The tee shot is far more elevated at Dormie and plays as mid length par 4. Clear Creek's hole is up hill. Secondly, the opening fairway at Dormie is much wider, and it looks the part.

Here's a photo from Dormie's 1st earlier in the summer.
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Kyle Henderson

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Re: Clear Creek Tahoe Redux: A Pictorial!!!
« Reply #4 on: October 26, 2013, 11:31:07 AM »


Dormie has slight similarities but it's a much different hole. The tee shot is far more elevated at Dormie and plays as mid length par 4. Clear Creek's hole is up hill. Secondly, the opening fairway at Dormie is much wider, and it looks the part.

Here's a photo from Dormie's 1st earlier in the summer.

I do see some similarities...

Coore and Crenshaw certainly repeat some features from one course to the next. I wouldn't describe their work as having "templates" per se, but they seem to employ certain bunker schemes and green complexes that suit their purposes for multiple projects.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2013, 11:33:33 AM by Kyle Henderson »
"I always knew terrorists hated us for our freedom. Now they love us for our bondage." -- Stephen T. Colbert discusses the popularity of '50 Shades of Grey' at Gitmo

Kyle Henderson

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Re: Clear Creek Tahoe Redux: A Pictorial!!! (2nd hole posted)
« Reply #5 on: October 26, 2013, 11:33:05 AM »
No changes at the 2nd, one of the best uphill par 3’s I’ve seen. 133-178 yards.




"I always knew terrorists hated us for our freedom. Now they love us for our bondage." -- Stephen T. Colbert discusses the popularity of '50 Shades of Grey' at Gitmo

Frank Pont

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Re: Clear Creek Tahoe Redux: A Pictorial!!! (2nd hole posted)
« Reply #6 on: October 26, 2013, 11:39:36 AM »
Wouldn't the course look and play better with a lot more tree clearance?

(or are there strong laws stopping you from clearing trees?)

Kyle Henderson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Clear Creek Tahoe Redux: A Pictorial!!! (2nd hole posted)
« Reply #7 on: October 26, 2013, 11:50:15 AM »
Wouldn't the course look and play better with a lot more tree clearance?

(or are there strong laws stopping you from clearing trees?)

The fairways themselves are pretty generous. But, there is no rough to serve as a buffer for misshaped drives. My photos are also taken from angles that may narrow the course's appearance somewhat, but its is certainly a course that requires competent driving from the back plates.

I find the trees pretty infrequently there, for whatever reason, but big hitters who are a bit off their game will have tree trouble. The good news is that clearing of the underbrush on the first 12 holes (with more to follow on the final 6) makes it quite possible to find and play recovery shots in most cases.

There are some restrictions on tree clearing, but conifers were taken out at the 3rd, 4th , 13th and 16th (maybe a few other places as well) since my previous visit in 2011.

Houses will be coming to the property soon, but I'm told the impact on the forest and golf course will be minimized as much as possible. My fingers are crossed.
"I always knew terrorists hated us for our freedom. Now they love us for our bondage." -- Stephen T. Colbert discusses the popularity of '50 Shades of Grey' at Gitmo

RJ_Daley

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Re: Clear Creek Tahoe Redux: A Pictorial!!! (2nd hole posted)
« Reply #8 on: October 26, 2013, 12:23:05 PM »
Quote
The hole also plays slightly downhill now from tee to green, whereas it used to climb the entire way.

I am puzzled by this comment.  Even if they placed the new tee up and backward from original some 100 yards, and create an opening shot now slightly down hill, wouldn't the next shot and approach still have to be "slightly uphill"?  They didn't regrade the entire hole corridor, did they?


At any rate, it must be pretty darn good for Kyle to say it is among his fav's all time, given he has been to several very excellent tracks.   8)
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Frank Pont

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Clear Creek Tahoe Redux: A Pictorial!!! (2nd hole posted)
« Reply #9 on: October 26, 2013, 01:12:08 PM »


A somewhat clumsy effort to show what I mean......
« Last Edit: October 26, 2013, 01:23:03 PM by Frank Pont »

Kyle Henderson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Clear Creek Tahoe Redux: A Pictorial!!! (2nd hole posted)
« Reply #10 on: October 26, 2013, 01:23:27 PM »
Quote
The hole also plays slightly downhill now from tee to green, whereas it used to climb the entire way.

I am puzzled by this comment.  Even if they placed the new tee up and backward from original some 100 yards, and create an opening shot now slightly down hill, wouldn't the next shot and approach still have to be "slightly uphill"?  They didn't regrade the entire hole corridor, did they?


Yes, the approach is still uphill. Thus the fairway-to-green play is still uphill. But from tee-to-green the overall change in elevation is a negative number.
"I always knew terrorists hated us for our freedom. Now they love us for our bondage." -- Stephen T. Colbert discusses the popularity of '50 Shades of Grey' at Gitmo

Kyle Henderson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Clear Creek Tahoe Redux: A Pictorial!!! (2nd hole posted)
« Reply #11 on: October 26, 2013, 01:26:11 PM »


A somewhat clumsy effort to show what I mean......

I like it both ways, visually. You'll be pleased by the views they opened up behind the 13th green via tree removal, I suspect.
"I always knew terrorists hated us for our freedom. Now they love us for our bondage." -- Stephen T. Colbert discusses the popularity of '50 Shades of Grey' at Gitmo

Mike Schott

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Re: Clear Creek Tahoe Redux: A Pictorial!!! (2nd hole posted)
« Reply #12 on: October 26, 2013, 01:27:50 PM »
What a cool hole.  I love the green setting. Can you run the ball onto the green?

Frank Pont

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Clear Creek Tahoe Redux: A Pictorial!!! (2nd hole posted)
« Reply #13 on: October 26, 2013, 01:51:29 PM »


A somewhat clumsy effort to show what I mean......

I like it both ways, visually.

I suspect the course manager likes mine better though  ;)

Mark Saltzman

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Re: Clear Creek Tahoe Redux: A Pictorial!!! (2nd hole posted)
« Reply #14 on: October 26, 2013, 01:58:22 PM »


A somewhat clumsy effort to show what I mean......

I like it both ways, visually.

I suspect the course manager likes mine better though  ;)

I like it better too!

Ronald Montesano

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Clear Creek Tahoe Redux: A Pictorial!!! (2nd hole posted)
« Reply #15 on: October 26, 2013, 03:26:34 PM »
#9 Cherry Hill (Ontario) & #10 Orchard Park (New York)-Walter Travis.

#10 Park (New York)-Charles Alison

Located close to each other, all are great and uphill par three holes, from which C might have drawn some inspiration.

However, my favorite uphill par three is the 8th at Lookout Point (Ontario)
Coming in 2024
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David Kelly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Clear Creek Tahoe Redux: A Pictorial!!! (2nd hole posted)
« Reply #16 on: October 26, 2013, 03:53:52 PM »
Wouldn't the course look and play better with a lot more tree clearance?

(or are there strong laws stopping you from clearing trees?)

I would say that it is Coore & Crenshaw's most challenging course off the tee that I have played but I didn't think that it was in any way too narrow or over-treed.  There are some holes that will make you shape your drive but I found that interesting.

As Kyle mentioned, with the forest floor cleaned of underbrush it is pretty easy to find your ball and play it on most holes.
"Whatever in creation exists without my knowledge exists without my consent." - Judge Holden, Blood Meridian.

Kyle Henderson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Clear Creek Tahoe Redux: A Pictorial!!! (2nd hole posted)
« Reply #17 on: October 26, 2013, 05:51:03 PM »

I suspect the course manager likes mine better though  ;)

In general the greens are in tip top shape, including the 2nd. I think shade might be an issue at the 5th and 14th, but not here.
"I always knew terrorists hated us for our freedom. Now they love us for our bondage." -- Stephen T. Colbert discusses the popularity of '50 Shades of Grey' at Gitmo

Kyle Henderson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Clear Creek Tahoe Redux: A Pictorial!!! (3rd hole posted)
« Reply #18 on: October 26, 2013, 05:54:01 PM »
This is a view of the 3rd (411-508 yards, par 4) from soon after its inception. The hole plummets from the course’s highest to its lowest point.


Here, from a forward tee, is a depiction the current 3rd hole. While it is difficult to discern the removal of brush under the forest canopy, the expansion of the left fairway or the addition of new ladies tees below, the maturation of the seeded “native” areas is clearly displayed. It looks like a tree or two may have also been felled on the inside of the dogleg.


The approach, while essentially unchanged, is still quite testing. Most will face a shot of 150-200 yards from a downhill lie, and anyone that ends up in the newly-added left portion of the fairway will be forced to negotiate the trees in the foreground. After a proper drive, a well-played fade that lands short will chase forward and right. It's a very satisfying shot to pull off.

« Last Edit: October 26, 2013, 05:58:29 PM by Kyle Henderson »
"I always knew terrorists hated us for our freedom. Now they love us for our bondage." -- Stephen T. Colbert discusses the popularity of '50 Shades of Grey' at Gitmo

Lynn_Shackelford

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Re: Clear Creek Tahoe Redux: A Pictorial!!! (3rd hole posted)
« Reply #19 on: October 27, 2013, 11:19:07 AM »
I thought #3 was a par 5.  It has always been a par 4?
It must be kept in mind that the elusive charm of the game suffers as soon as any successful method of standardization is allowed to creep in.  A golf course should never pretend to be, nor is intended to be, an infallible tribunal.
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Kyle Henderson

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Re: Clear Creek Tahoe Redux: A Pictorial!!! (3rd hole posted)
« Reply #20 on: October 27, 2013, 12:57:44 PM »
I thought #3 was a par 5.  It has always been a par 4?

Indeed . The original course was a par 34 +36=70 with three par 3's and a single par 5 on the front. Extending #1 to a par 5 brought it up to 35+36=71.
"I always knew terrorists hated us for our freedom. Now they love us for our bondage." -- Stephen T. Colbert discusses the popularity of '50 Shades of Grey' at Gitmo

Frank Pont

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Re: Clear Creek Tahoe Redux: A Pictorial!!! (2nd hole posted)
« Reply #21 on: October 27, 2013, 06:30:11 PM »

I suspect the course manager likes mine better though  ;)

In general the greens are in tip top shape, including the 2nd. I think shade might be an issue at the 5th and 14th, but not here.

Kyle, I was thinking roots more than shade....

Kyle Henderson

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Re: Clear Creek Tahoe Redux: A Pictorial!!! (2nd hole posted)
« Reply #22 on: October 28, 2013, 12:07:04 AM »

I suspect the course manager likes mine better though  ;)

In general the greens are in tip top shape, including the 2nd. I think shade might be an issue at the 5th and 14th, but not here.

Kyle, I was thinking roots more than shade....

No root issues near any of the fairways or greens, as I can recall. The grow deep in them parts I 'spect.
"I always knew terrorists hated us for our freedom. Now they love us for our bondage." -- Stephen T. Colbert discusses the popularity of '50 Shades of Grey' at Gitmo

Kyle Henderson

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Re: Clear Creek Tahoe Redux: A Pictorial!!! (4th hole posted)
« Reply #23 on: October 28, 2013, 12:14:25 AM »

Hole #4 :127-200 yards

Here is the view from just left of the regular tees from 2010.


From 2013:
The trees have been thinned and trimmed on the right, bringing the reshaped bunker complex more into view. Also, the underbrush has been cleared back on all sides.

"I always knew terrorists hated us for our freedom. Now they love us for our bondage." -- Stephen T. Colbert discusses the popularity of '50 Shades of Grey' at Gitmo

Matthew Essig

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Re: Clear Creek Tahoe Redux: A Pictorial!!! (4th hole posted)
« Reply #24 on: October 28, 2013, 01:18:51 AM »

Hole #4 :127-200 yards

Here is the view from just left of the regular tees from 2010.


From 2013:
The trees have been thinned and trimmed on the right, bringing the reshaped bunker complex more into view. Also, the underbrush has been cleared back on all sides.



I love the look of the first and second holes. The trees encroach too much on the third hole. They were also too much on 4 before, but that second picture proves that a little trimming goes a long way. I love how they didn't clear out a bunch of the trees around, like some of the Treehouse may wish to have. They just took out the inessential clutter. 4 looks great now.
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