Is this a feature that you've seen in a green before?

[Bryan Izatt]

I was fortunate to get this picture of a putt track on a wet green, where in the last few feet to the hole, you can see where the ball tracked up and over what I can only describe as a small crease or fold in the green. I can't recall having seen this kind of feature before.  It looks like it should be difficult to maintain given the rather small, but rather abrupt rise and fall.  Has anybody seen it elsewhere?

[Jason Thurman]

There's a low-budget daily fee course outside of Lexington, KY called The Brook. The first hole there has a similar sharp crease running across the middle of its green.

I could never tell if it was shaped that way purposefully or if it had just happened accidentally through multiple renovations and years of fair to middling conditioning. It was a little maddening to putt over or across, and certainly unusual.

[Bryan Izatt]

On the course in the picture above, similar creases occur on other holes, so it apparently was a planned feature and not an accidental occurence.

[Steve Okula]

It looks like the green has just been fertilized and not yet watered in. Golfers walking on it in that state are likely to cause foot print tracks of burned leaves. Was the course open when you played it?

[Bryan Izatt]

Yes, of course, the course was open when I played it.  Did you suspect that I trespassed?

It didn't appear to be fertilized at the time.  I think what you're seeing is mowing lines.  It sure looked like they mowed it not too long before I got to that green and that they mowed it in the rain.  It had been raining for a couple of hours before I got to this green.

[Jon Wiggett]

I really like this sort of micro movement as it makes the golfer study a bit more. One of my criticisms of many modern designs is the lack of subtlety on the modelling.

Bryan, it looks like you holed the putt, did you?

Jon

*modified typo meant to write many but missed the 'm' out oops

[Bryan Izatt]

Jon,

Sadly, no - a very small lip out.  The cups were very sharply cut.

[Steve Okula]

Bryan, I'm not accusing you of criminal trespass. Sometimes people get legitmate access to courses that are not open for normal play.

For example, my club is closed on Mondays, but employees, members, and certain guests are allowed to play even if the clubhous is shut and we're working on the greens (like topdressing or yes, fertilizing). We don't usually mow the greens on those days, and it may produce a situation like in your photo even when no one is out of line.

The horizontal lines across the dew look like they were made by a spreader more than a mower, but I accept your explanation.

[Ally Mcintosh]

I really like this sort of micro movement as it makes the golfer study a bit more. One of my criticisms of any modern designs is the lack of subtlety on the modelling.

I like this sharp, micro-movement as well - once it is maintainable.

More unusual and less planned looking.

[Mark_F]

Strandhill has this feature on a few greens.  Definitely 7, but I'm fairly positive 3,6 and 9 at least have it, or something very similar. The greenkeeper had a predilection for placing the flag a foot or so behind them, too.

[Bryan Izatt]

Steve,

No problem.  I was a little too sensitive in my reading of your question.  This is a public course, so I doubt that it is ever closed during the season.  I'll shortly be posting other pictures of the course where these mowing patterns stand out on the greens.  You can see what you think it is, if not mowing, from those pictures.

Ally, Jon, Mark,

I, too, liked the feature because it was so unique to me.  This greenkeeper also seemed to have a penchant for putting flags near these features.

[Carl Johnson]

I really like this sort of micro movement as it makes the golfer study a bit more. One of my criticisms of many modern designs is the lack of subtlety on the modelling. . . .

Agreed.  Big, yet consistent contours look tough, but they are easier (for me) than the subtle breaks that are tough to see.  What about a combination - not to change the subject, but a green with big countours with small breaks in the big contours?  Do they exist?  Not practical to maintain?  Not fair?  Not a clue.

[Jon Wiggett]

I really like this sort of micro movement as it makes the golfer study a bit more. One of my criticisms of many modern designs is the lack of subtlety on the modelling. . . .

Agreed.  Big, yet consistent contours look tough, but they are easier (for me) than the subtle breaks that are tough to see.  What about a combination - not to change the subject, but a green with big countours with small breaks in the big contours?  Do they exist?  Not practical to maintain?  Not fair?  Not a clue.

Carl,

I know one green with big contours and a fair bit of micro movement. I will try to get a photo posted. Greens are no harder or easier to maintain with micro movement. Fairness is not part of the equation on a good golf course. It is more about playability if you ask me.

Jon

[Thomas Dai]

Bryan,
Reference the photo in your initial post, out of interest, which course is this and which hole?
All the best.

[Bryan Izatt]

Thomas,

It's the 16th at Trump International Golf Links Scotland.

[Mark Chaplin]

The surface looks a newer links green at this time of year. The background looks almost like desert. Maybe Donald Steel will get credit for some good work with this green.

[Bryan Izatt]

Mark,

I'd take the colours with a grain of salt.  I pushed the greens and blues in the camera settings and goosed the contrast to make the foggy/rainy pictures clearer.  The colours are not really true renditions.

I thought the greens collectively were very good.  Looked like there could be many entertaining and challenging putts and lots of places to put pins.  But, maybe Hawtree (and/or The Donald   ) should get the credit, not Donald Steel.

[Mark Chaplin]

Doh!!

[Steve Wilson]

Bryan Izzatt in response to a query as to whether he made the putt repies:

"Sadly, no - a very small lip out.  The cups were very sharply cut."

This implies to me that the belief behind the statement is that it is more difficult to putt sharply cut cups.  I have for sometime played low maintainenance courses where cups become sloppily cut, out of round, and volcanoed due to repeated use.  I think those cups are smaller due to the lean or slump of the turf above the cup liner.  In other words I think the hole is bigger on fresh sharply cut cups than it is on the three  day variety.  So, putts with a little more speed may fall into sharp cups while they will, with an eighth inch or so of more ground beneath them will keep on trucking. Obviously, if the ground is canted toward the hole any putt that stops on the perimeter will fall in.

So what's the impression.  Better chance of making putts on freshly and properly cut cups or on three day old ones that are caving in?

[Jeff_Brauer]

In discussing green contours with some other architects and better players (i.e., pro tour guys) they say the ONLY way to make putts harder for the top players is to introduce some "up and over" midway through a putt.  You can always judge break, but its harder to calculate how a deceleration/acceleration will affect a putt midway through its roll.

Thus, I know a few architects who use this feature for that reason.  Of course, they wouldn't be responsible for cutting the cup that close to it, nor are any of the ridges I have seen from them that puny looking.  Perhaps that ridge is kept tight to save green space on that muni, but to my eye, it looks like it should be a bit broader.  

[Carl Johnson]

Bryan Izzatt in response to a query as to whether he made the putt repies:

So what's the impression.  Better chance of making putts on freshly and properly cut cups or on three day old ones that are caving in?

Steve, I've always felt the new cut holes were easier because they were larger, for the reasons you mention.  A lip out on a new, sharp edge might not even appear to have touched the edge on an older, shrunken cup.  This has been my intuitive sense of it.

[Brent Hutto]

Just how much distance is there between the crest of the mini-ridge and the hole? It looks only 3, 4, 5 feet in the photo but I suspect that is the camera foreshortening and it's really more like 10 feet.

[Bryan Izatt]

Steve,

The hole was sharply cut.  Perhaps I only caught a bit of the edge and did a 90* from the right edge to left.  It ended up about 6" away, so didn't have much pace.  I'd agree that a 3 day old cup that has subsided a bit will capture more putts than a newly cut hole that is level or pulled up a bit.

Jeff,

I'd agree that putting up and over ridges, especially at an angle to the slope makes putting difficult.  My home course has that kind of feature on many greens and putting is tough.

Brent,

The hole in the picture was cut maybe 3 feet from the micro ridge.  You can sort of tell from the footprints right of the hole.  I have another picture from a different angle that I'll post later when I have time.

[Kyle Casella]

I've seen this somewhere before and it is killing me that I can't remember where. I remember thinking that it was interesting because it made the speed very difficult to judge when the hole is cut just beyond like in your photo.