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Michael J. Moss

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The most unnatural landform ever created by a marquee architect. New
« on: October 15, 2013, 02:35:39 PM »
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First, I apologize for the poorly formatted image...but it does add some dramatic effect as you scroll to the right to reveal the item in question.

Pete Dye is the architect. The golf course is Pound Ridge.

It is a tight property with more than its fair share of elevation change. This is the view from the 10th tee. The decision was made to "wall-off" the right side with this large hill (I assume) to prevent balls from invading an adjacent hole that occupies lower land. That said, is there ever any excuse for building a landform like this?

Whatever minimalism is, this ain't it!

« Last Edit: September 18, 2018, 10:40:50 AM by Michael J. Moss »
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Richard Choi

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Re: The most unnatural landform ever created by a maquee architect.
« Reply #1 on: October 15, 2013, 02:52:02 PM »
What makes you think he was going for minimalism?
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Ally Mcintosh

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Re: The most unnatural landform ever created by a maquee architect.
« Reply #2 on: October 15, 2013, 02:54:33 PM »
I'm not sure I can exactly say that I like it.... But what I can say is that it's much more preferable to my eye than the really bland lines of wavy containment mounding that blight so many modern courses...
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Michael Wharton-Palmer

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Re: The most unnatural landform ever created by a maquee architect.
« Reply #3 on: October 15, 2013, 03:04:19 PM »
Pete Dye and Whistling Straights which I know gets alot of love on just about all "Top 100 Lists", but to me is an engineering masterpiece but a golf architecture disaster.
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David_Tepper

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Re: The most unnatural landform ever created by a maquee architect.
« Reply #4 on: October 15, 2013, 03:30:11 PM »
Frank Lloyd Wright designed a few architectural masterpieces that were engineering disasters. ;)
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Joe Bausch

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Re: The most unnatural landform ever created by a maquee architect.
« Reply #5 on: October 15, 2013, 03:33:45 PM »
Let me make your photo more website friendly M2!  And now it is 'clickable' to the ginormous size too.   ;)

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Adam Clayman

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Re: The most unnatural landform ever created by a maquee architect.
« Reply #6 on: October 15, 2013, 03:34:36 PM »
Pete builds stuff like this all the time. I like to believe it's humorous. It sure gives me a good chuckle.

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Dan_Lucas

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Re: The most unnatural landform ever created by a maquee architect.
« Reply #7 on: October 15, 2013, 03:36:40 PM »
The redan hole at Chicago Golf Club looks like a turn at Daytona. No attempt at looking natural. Still a very cool hole. You certainly don't want to miss long right.

I have to think that some of Muirhead's stuff would have to win this contest though.
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Michael Wharton-Palmer

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Re: The most unnatural landform ever created by a maquee architect.
« Reply #8 on: October 15, 2013, 03:51:43 PM »
Kelly.
How about the Titanic..engineering marvel but hardly turned out to be architecurally very effective ;)
But I get your point.
The earth moving and resulting landscape at Whistling is an engireering marvel, but as a golf course I maintain it is an architectural mess.
Links golf attempt that went way overboard and in effect became a confused mess of what type of golf course it is meant to be.
The prime example is that aboration of a par five that goes around that horrendous lake.
Other than that.........
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Dan Kelly

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Re: The most unnatural landform ever created by a maquee architect.
« Reply #9 on: October 15, 2013, 04:04:15 PM »
What's the Over/Under on the number of posts before the words "Mae West" appear?

12?

I'll take the Under.
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Jim Colton

Re: The most unnatural landform ever created by a maquee architect.
« Reply #10 on: October 15, 2013, 04:10:22 PM »
Quote from: Dan Kelly on October 15, 2013, 04:04:15 PM
What's the Over/Under on the number of posts before the words "Mae West" appear?

12?

I'll take the Under.

I'll guess 10.

The scrolling actually helps in this case because the left half looks like a fairly typical, nice downhill par 4. Then you scroll right and BAM!

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Jason Thurman

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Re: The most unnatural landform ever created by a maquee architect.
« Reply #11 on: October 15, 2013, 04:25:34 PM »
Quote from: Michael Wharton-Palmer on October 15, 2013, 03:51:43 PM
The earth moving and resulting landscape at Whistling is an engireering marvel, but as a golf course I maintain it is an architectural mess.
Links golf attempt that went way overboard and in effect became a confused mess of what type of golf course it is meant to be.
The prime example is that aboration of a par five that goes around that horrendous lake.
Other than that.........

How can the least congruent hole on the course be a prime example of anything about the course? Unless by "aboration" you meant "aberration," which that hole certainly is in the context of the rest of the routing as admitted by Dye himself.

And please, the original post isn't even close to the MOST UNNATURAL landform ever created by Dye, let alone by any marquee architect. There's not a hole on the Irish course that looks that natural.
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Matthew Petersen

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Re: The most unnatural landform ever created by a maquee architect.
« Reply #12 on: October 15, 2013, 05:17:41 PM »
Echoing others here, but that's pretty typical Dye. He's never much claimed to be interested in "natural" landforms or minimalism. His affinity for Raynor shines through.
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Josh Tarble

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Re: The most unnatural landform ever created by a maquee architect.
« Reply #13 on: October 15, 2013, 05:29:24 PM »
That's not even the only place he's ever built something that looks like that....here is a hole from the Kampen Course at Purdue (from David Stewart's IMO piece) that has a very similar landform



I actually quite like the hole at Kampen, it is a very good Alps rendition.

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Mark Bourgeois

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Re: The most unnatural landform ever created by a maquee architect.
« Reply #14 on: October 15, 2013, 06:12:19 PM »
Going by the picture and the information available on the course website, the entire hole looks like the product of a series of compromises. I don't like the look of the bunker complex on the right but I could see that Charybdis doing a lot of business thanks to the Scylla water hazard on the left.  :P
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Grant Saunders

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Re: The most unnatural landform ever created by a maquee architect.
« Reply #15 on: October 15, 2013, 06:22:33 PM »
Is there any before pics available?

Could there have been some kind of form there to begin with and it has been emphasised or is it possible it was done to bury/cover something?
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Dan_Callahan

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Re: The most unnatural landform ever created by a maquee architect.
« Reply #16 on: October 15, 2013, 06:31:47 PM »
Here's a similar style by Dye at Wintonbury Hills:

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Pete_Pittock

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Re: The most unnatural landform ever created by a maquee architect.
« Reply #17 on: October 15, 2013, 07:31:15 PM »



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Re: The most unnatural landform ever created by a maquee architect.

« Reply #12 on: Today at 01:25:34 PM »
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Quote from: Michael Wharton-Palmer on Today at 12:51:43 PM

The earth moving and resulting landscape at Whistling is an engireering marvel, but as a golf course I maintain it is an architectural mess.
Links golf attempt that went way overboard and in effect became a confused mess of what type of golf course it is meant to be.
The prime example is that aboration of a par five that goes around that horrendous lake.
Other than that.........


How can the least congruent hole on the course be a prime example of anything about the course? Unless by "aboration" you meant "aberration," which that hole certainly is in the context of the rest of the routing as admitted by Dye himself.

And please, the original post isn't even close to the MOST UNNATURAL landform ever created by Dye, let alone by any marquee architect. There's not a hole on the Irish course that looks that natural.

Could have meant arboration.

 
 
 
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Mike Nuzzo

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Re: The most unnatural landform ever created by a maquee architect.
« Reply #18 on: October 15, 2013, 07:39:09 PM »
Quote from: Adam Clayman on October 15, 2013, 03:34:36 PM
Pete builds stuff like this all the time. I like to believe it's humorous. It sure gives me a good chuckle.

Would you chuckle like that with your own money?
He did not used to build stuff like this when he had less money to work with.
Cheers
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Matt Kardash

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Re: The most unnatural landform ever created by a maquee architect.
« Reply #19 on: October 15, 2013, 07:44:52 PM »
Just so we are clear, Pound Ridge was designed by Perry Dye, not Pete Dye. Pete may have come once or twice to take a look at it, but it's a Perry Dye design.
That being said, I don't hate the shaping of that hillside. However, I prefer the Kampen version because the artificial hill is a design feature that dictates strategy, as opposed to simply being a hole separator.
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John McCarthy

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Re: The most unnatural landform ever created by a maquee architect.
« Reply #20 on: October 15, 2013, 08:14:23 PM »
May I suggest that "arboration" be defined in a gca situation as the use of tree/s that make a golf course worse. 

Ie:  the three trees planted in the landing zone was a true arboration.
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Ed Brzezowski

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Re: The most unnatural landform ever created by a maquee architect.
« Reply #21 on: October 15, 2013, 08:29:27 PM »
Doesn't Pound Ridge have a par five with a house sized boulder about 150 out from the tee?  I recall it being a long hole but was laughing so hard when the ranger said it was owned by Wang & Wong I forgot the hole number.

Some very interesting features on that course.  Cayman balls on the range and nice quick greens.
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Joe Hancock

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Re: The most unnatural landform ever created by a maquee architect.
« Reply #22 on: October 15, 2013, 08:37:30 PM »
Mike Moss,

You're just spoiled.

Joe
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Austin Wade

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Re: The most unnatural landform ever created by a maquee architect.
« Reply #23 on: October 15, 2013, 08:42:39 PM »
My vote is for the 6th green on the South course at Grand Cypress.  Incredibly silly design by Jack in my opinion. 
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Mark Saltzman

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Re: The most unnatural landform ever created by a maquee architect.
« Reply #24 on: October 15, 2013, 08:46:15 PM »
Quote from: Austin Wade on October 15, 2013, 08:42:39 PM
My vote is for the 6th green on the South course at Grand Cypress.  Incredibly silly design by Jack in my opinion. 
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