[Peter Pallotta]

Peter,
Sunningdale and Wentworth both actively let it be known that they have a number of very good players and I think Wentworth even offers younger quality players a "deal" on dues.
Whilst at Sunningdale last week I spent a delightful hour talking to past Walker Cupper Ian Caldwell about their memebrship and he was very proud of the clubs heriatge of having a large number of near scratch players.

MWP - thank you. Another question then: are Sunningdale and Wentworth also, coincidentally or not, the 'toughest tests' among the top heathland courses?

Peter

[Mark Chaplin]

Sunningdale Old is one of the easier heathland courses. It is however a golfers club, attracting top blue blooded amateurs. Last time I played two ex-Ryder cuppers were having a quiet fourball in front of us. Both are "members" and regulars at the club. Care to name them?

Walton Heath Old & New are by far the hardest. Wentworth West is a competition course and therefore relentlessly hard & not exactly fun to play.

[Peter Pallotta]

thanks, Mark - that's interesting.

On the ex-Ryder Cuppers, the only one who comes to mind immediately is Paul McGinley, who I imagine playing golf all the time, just for the fun of it

Peter

[Will Lozier]

Sunningdale Old is one of the easier heathland courses. It is however a golfers club, attracting top blue blooded amateurs. Last time I played two ex-Ryder cuppers were having a quiet fourball in front of us. Both are "members" and regulars at the club. Care to name them?

Walton Heath Old & New are by far the hardest. Wentworth West is a competition course and therefore relentlessly hard & not exactly fun to play.

Agree, Sam Torrence, Agree, Agree

[Wayne Freeman]

  I just returned from a fabulous trip to England and played many of the courses listed here.  I was blown away by St. George's Hill.  The variety of holes and shots coupled with the incredible topography was fantastic.  As much as I liked Swinley Forest, Walton Heath, Sunningdale Old and New, and Woodhall Spa,  I thought SGH was even better.

[Mark Chaplin]

Sam Torrence yes, the other is one of the most well known Sunningdale faces but few know he actually played in the Ryder Cup.

[Sean_A]

Sam Torrence yes, the other is one of the most well known Sunningdale faces but few know he actually played in the Ryder Cup.

Michael King?

Ciao

[Mark Chaplin]

Spot on Sean, Queenie King did play in one RC.

I've only played Woking once and wasn't overcome by the course so another visit tomorrow will be interesting, especially with Worpy on Sunday.

[Sean_A]

Spot on Sean, Queenie King did play in one RC.

I've only played Woking once and wasn't overcome by the course so another visit tomorrow will be interesting, especially with Worpy on Sunday.

I thought I saw him when I was at Sunny a few years ago.  I sort of recognized the guy, then did some research when I went home - that was the only name I could make fit, but I wasn't sure. 

Ciao

[RichMacafee]

Spot on Sean, Queenie King did play in one RC.

I've only played Woking once and wasn't overcome by the course so another visit tomorrow will be interesting, especially with Worpy on Sunday.

I hope to hear you change your tune Chappers. I though Woking was a huge highlight of my trip and very underrated (in the rankings at least). 1-6 at Woking is simple strategic golf at it's best, 11-14 almost as good. I think it's well worth the game for 3,4,5,6 alone - brilliant holes.

9 is an awful hole, buts at least gets the impossible climb from the back of the course over in one hole.

[Ally Mcintosh]

Spot on Sean, Queenie King did play in one RC.

I've only played Woking once and wasn't overcome by the course so another visit tomorrow will be interesting, especially with Worpy on Sunday.

I thought I saw him when I was at Sunny a few years ago.  I sort of recognized the guy, then did some research when I went home - that was the only name I could make fit, but I wasn't sure. 

Ciao

He's an EGD director too... They being also based in Sunningdale...

Mark - I have Woking in my top 5 heaths primarily for the greens. Some other great stuff there as well but the greens are like no others...

Will - Good to see some love for St Georges Hill... I agree

[Sean_A]

Yes Ally, I too have Woking in my top group, but its also because of the bunkering and playability of the design.  In truth, the London heathlands as a group are quite playable in terms of getting higher cappers around the courses without too much grief.  Rough and trees are generally managed better than other places.  New Zealand is quite tight though. With the exception of Sunny New & Ganton (which is only really called a heathland for lack of a better label), which are more challenging, I tend to rate the more forgiving heathland courses. In fact, I am going to cross off Ganton because its more than a stretch to call it a heathland - its an inland links (hey - its better than warm climate links )

Sunny Old
Alwoodley (being open-minded)
St Georges Hill
Swinley Forest
Sunny New
Woking
Ganton (not being open-minded)

_______________________________
Beau Desert
Notts (being open-minded)
Addington
Woodhall Spa (being open minded)
Northamptonshire Co  

Ciao

[Mark Pearce]

Sean, we agree on Ganton(!)  To call it a heathland course is to stretch things too far.  I don't like the inland links description, either.  Ganton is one of a kind, really.  Could  it be called moorland, sitting as it does on the edge of the North York Moors?

[Ally Mcintosh]

Sean, we agree on Ganton(!)  To call it a heathland course is to stretch things too far.  I don't like the inland links description, either.  Ganton is one of a kind, really.  Could  it be called moorland, sitting as it does on the edge of the North York Moors?

I think it is an inland links - a real one... Possibly the only one in GB&I... Still - I too hate that label because it sets a precedent for any parkland course without trees to use.

[Sean_A]

Just call it Ganton then. Folks will have to see it to know its unique - or just trust others.

Ciao

[Thomas Dai]

Amazed to hear there are none in Ireland.

Here are some others that get mentioned from time to time - not sure where they'd fit into a ranking though. I'll leave that to others more qualified to suggest.

Delamere Forest
Sherwood Forest
Lindrick
Worksop
Sutton Coldfield
Little Aston
Enville (36)
Copt Heath
Blackwell
Isle of Purbeck
Thorpeness
Luffenham
Broadstone
Parkstone
Ferndown
Wareham
Stoneham
Brokenhurst Manor
Remedy Oak
Dorset GCC
East Devon
Teignmouth

Also, desperately trying to get a Welsh course in this category, there's Llandrindod Wells and Mountain Ash too, on higher ground but well draining and heathery.

All the best

[Jon Wiggett]

Aren't heathland and moorland effectively the same thing?

Jon

[Ally Mcintosh]

Aren't heathland and moorland effectively the same thing?

Jon

Yes. Moorland is a sub-category of "Heath"....

Although the heath we usually associate golf with is actually also a subset of "Heath", more low lying and dry heath... and different to Moorland (upper and wetter)...

That Scottish list of courses is really broadening it out too far...

[Mark Pearce]

Although the heath we usually associate golf with is actually also a subset of "Heath", more low lying and dry heath... and different to Moorland (upper and wetter)...

That makes sense.  So what the question here really is is "top 25 low lying dry heathland cousrse".

[Thomas Dai]

Although the heath we usually associate golf with is actually also a subset of "Heath", more low lying and dry heath... and different to Moorland (upper and wetter)...

That makes sense.  So what the question here really is is "top 25 low lying dry heathland cousrse".

top 25 low lying dry heathland courses
As that's pretty much what I was trying to get at this definition is fine and I shall amend the threads title accordingly.
All the best

[Thomas Dai]

So, following a copy-n-paste exercise, these are courses mentioned.

Would someone more knowledgable than me now care to do a heavy edit to reduce the list to the top 25.

By all means have a 26-50 listing as well. Some exclusions detailed are the bottom of the listing.

top 25-ish low lying dry UK&I heathlands - contenders

The Berkshire Blue and Red
East Berkshire
Newbury and Crookham
Royal Ascot
Swinley Forest
Stoke Poges
Sandiway
Broadstone
Ferndown
Isle of Purbeck
Knighton Heath
Parkstone
Wareham
South Moor
Orsett
Army
Blackmoor
Liphook
North Hants
Berkhamsted
Rowany
Charnwood Forest
Woodhall Spa
Thetford
Coxmoor
Notts Hollinwell
Sherwood Forest
Tadmarton Heath
Luffenham Heath
Beau Desert
Penn
Whittington Heath
Aldeburgh
Purdis Heath
Rushmere
Thorpeness
Woodbridge
The Addington
Camberley Heath
Coombe Hill
Farnham
Hankley Common
Hindhead
New Zealand
RAC
Sunningdale Old and New
Sunningdale Ladies
Walton Heath Old and New
Wentworth East
West Hill
Woking
Worplesdon
Crowborough Beacon
West Sussex
Sutton Coldfield
Fulford
Alwoodley
Bingley St Ives
Moortown
Sand Moor
Delamere Forest
Sherwood Forest
Lindrick
Worksop
Nothamptonshire County
Frilford Heath Red and Green
Enville Highgate and Lodge
Copt Heath
Blackwell
Luffenham Heath
Stoneham
Brokenhurst Manor
Remedy Oak
Dorset GCC
East Devon
Teignmouth
Northumberland
Strensil
Downfield
Ballumbie Castle
Kemnay
Elgin
Lamlash
Ladybank
Alyth
Dunkeld & Birnam
Forfar
Kirriemuir
Falkirk Tryst
Fort Augustus
Torphin Hill
Edzell
Lauder
Moffat
Whitekirk
Lothianburn
The Dukes Course at StA
Fort William
Port Bannatyne
Easter Moffat
Craigie Hill
Gourock
Muir of Ord
Strathpeffer
Galasheils
Innerleithen
Selkirk
Bonar Bridge

Not included as not sufficiently low lying -

Gleneagles Kings & Queens
G-West
Llandrindod Wells
Mountain Ash
Yelverton
Kingussie*
Grantown on Spey*
Boat of Garten*
Abernethy*
Carrbridge*
Ogden*
Baildon*

Ski slopes

Dufftown*

Heathland like but not included as too close to the sea -

Formby
Formby Ladies
Golspie
Panmure
Monifieth
Scotscraig
Carnoustie Burnside
Archerfield Fidra and Dirleton
Renaissance

Not included for simply being Ganton -

Ganton

* = later revision

[Ally Mcintosh]

I'd kill 90% of the Scottish ones in that... Can't think of a genuine dry heath Scottish course... and some of those are straight out parkland...

[Niall C]

If low lying is part of the qualification then you can take out more than Gleneagles from the Scottish list. Kingussie for a start although it would be firmly in the moorland subset I would suggest. Likewise nearby Grantown and Boat of Garton etc.

Dufftown would be in it sown sub-set of heathland headed "Ski Slope".

Niall

[Jon Wiggett]

I am at a bit of a loss as to what parameters being set for this. Gleneagles, Boat of Garten or Grantown out for being too high yet Abernethy, Carrbridge, Ogden and Baildon which are much higher, still in. Maybe  height above sea level should be set . To be a little pedantic, moorland is something that occurs naturally where as heathland is manmade and as such it is heathland that is a subset of moorland .

ps. Golspie so cruelly thrown out twice

Jon

[Ally Mcintosh]

You can spin it any way. Moor sometimes needs man managed as well but given certain variants are heather clad, I prefer to see it as the subset. Either way it comes down to slightly different soil, vegetation and climate says I. Dry vs Wet is probably easier than low vs high

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