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Patrick Hodgdon

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The Minikahda Club
« on: October 07, 2013, 06:34:50 PM »
After finally getting to walk (I had the pleasure of caddying for a victorious Interlachen team in the newly relaunched "Willie Watson" Ryder Cup style tournament between the two clubs this past Fri/Sat) this Twin Cities club I've driven by "a million" times growing up, I was curious to learn more about the original course design, what was directly attributed to Ross' redesign in 1920 and exactly what holes were "lost" due to the Excelsior Blvd. road expansion and who designed the current 15-17.

In one weekend I heard conflicting reports on what was Ross' design, the 3 holes across the Blvd., etc.

So I'm hoping Rick Shefchik (Minnesota course historian) or Jeff Johnson (the club's sup -- excellent course setup/conditions btw) can help me out here. How much did Ross change, who designed 15-17, and where were holes lost if any? From Rick's excellent MN course history in From Fields to Fairways, I know that the current #6 was built by Ross and a previous par-3 was removed across the road but that was about it. BTW I also heard that #6 was part of the inspiration for Jones' #16 at Augusta, curious if anyone knows more about that. I'll add some of my thoughts on the course later in the thread.

Update: Thanks Brian and Rick, I was unaware Anthony has just recently written the Minikahda course history. Paging Anthony!
« Last Edit: October 09, 2013, 12:30:59 PM by Patrick Hodgdon »
Did you know World Woods has the best burger I've ever had in my entire life? I'm planning a trip back just for another one between rounds.

"I would love to be a woman golfer." -JC Jones

Brian Finn

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Re: The Minikahda Club
« Reply #1 on: October 07, 2013, 06:50:33 PM »
Patrick,
In addition to the information that  Rick, Jeff and others may be able to provide, I understand the club's history (written by Anthony Pioppi) was recently completed.  I am not sure if it is available for sale to the public or just members.  Perhaps someone here can provide additional info.  
New for '24: Monifieth x2, Montrose x2, Panmure, Carnoustie x3, Scotscraig, Kingsbarns, Elie, Dumbarnie, Lundin, Belvedere, The Loop x2, Forest Dunes, Arcadia Bluffs x2, Kapalua Plantation, Windsong Farm, Minikahda...

Rick Shefchik

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Re: The Minikahda Club
« Reply #2 on: October 07, 2013, 07:38:21 PM »
At this point I'll defer to Anthony Pioppi, who has just written the definitive book on the history of Minikahda's golf course (I'm guessing you could pick up a copy in the Minikahda pro shop). If I can help out later, I'll try.
"Golf is 20 percent mechanics and technique. The other 80 percent is philosophy, humor, tragedy, romance, melodrama, companionship, camaraderie, cussedness and conversation." - Grantland Rice

PCCraig

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Re: The Minikahda Club - Paging Anthony Pioppi
« Reply #3 on: October 07, 2013, 09:10:49 PM »
Who won the ICC/Minikahda match, Patrick?

I'll be curious to hear what the definitive answer as to who designed the holes across the street. I thought I remember Rick saying a couple of years ago that those holes had been there pre-Ross and that Ross likely tweaked them in his remodel but I could be mistaken. Either way, I have to say that 15-17 are a few of my favorite holes there. I think they are all really fun short-to-mid length par-4's and for some reason they get a bad reputation.

In fact, the more times I play Minikahda the more I enjoy it. There are some wonderful holes and Jeff Johnson & Staff do a phenomenal job presenting the course in a really understated and classic way.  
H.P.S.

ANTHONYPIOPPI

Re: The Minikahda Club - Paging Anthony Pioppi
« Reply #4 on: October 08, 2013, 11:34:29 AM »
Sorry to be out of the loop.

The three holes across Excelsior date to the original 9-hole routing that opened in 1899 with William Watson, Robert Foulis and Minikahda member/founder Clive T. Jaffray taking design credit. At the time, this part of Minneapolis was in the hinterlands and the the  road was single lane and dirt. Through all the routings, the first hole has always been the same. Originally, golfers then crossed over and played today's 15=17 as 2-4. The fifth hole was odd. The tee was roughly to the right of the existing 15th tee and the green was where the sod farm is now. Players would finish the hole and walk back to the tee, recross the road and play the sixth, which is roughly today's second hole.

The course was expanded to 18 somewhere around 1907 by the Minikahda head golf professional and Jaffray. The routing, I believe, turned the holes across the street into 14-17, although there was talk of them being kept as 2-5. In 1908, Thomas Bendelow arrived for a complete redo of the course. He kept the four holes as 14-17. On page 34 of "The History of The Minikahda Club Golf Course" there is a map of how the Bendlow course might have appeared. The Donald Ross hole-by-hole drawings show many existing features and the notes talk about them, as well. Tim Gerrish did a fine job creating the drawing.

Ross eliminated the weird par-3 on his 1916 plans.

Ross's 15th hole was much more of a dogleg. When Excelsior was expanded, the tee was moved away from the road. The green was also rebuilt but I don't think because of the road widening. I believe that the 25th anniversary book talks about a new green.

On the Ross drawings, 17 of the greens are detailed, but the drawing for the 15th is odd, almost a perfect diamond shape as if he forgot to finish it.

My understanding is that the new book is available in the pro shop.

I hope this helps.

If you need more, AnthonyPioppi@gmail.com.

Anthony





Patrick Hodgdon

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Re: The Minikahda Club - Paging Anthony Pioppi
« Reply #5 on: October 08, 2013, 02:15:45 PM »
Who won the ICC/Minikahda match, Patrick?

I'll be curious to hear what the definitive answer as to who designed the holes across the street. I thought I remember Rick saying a couple of years ago that those holes had been there pre-Ross and that Ross likely tweaked them in his remodel but I could be mistaken. Either way, I have to say that 15-17 are a few of my favorite holes there. I think they are all really fun short-to-mid length par-4's and for some reason they get a bad reputation.

In fact, the more times I play Minikahda the more I enjoy it. There are some wonderful holes and Jeff Johnson & Staff do a phenomenal job presenting the course in a really understated and classic way.  

Pat, I'm not sure of the final score but ICC was up something like 16-7 I believe heading into the singles matches and had it sealed up about halfway through the singles. They played 2, 9-hole mathches Friday morning at Minikahda as they were expecting rain and wanted to get some points on the board so there were more points available than the normal 40 or whatever it was with 16 players on each team. and 3 rounds of team matches before a round of singles.

I agree that 15-17 aren't bad holes at all individually and certainly get a bad rap as part of a maybe less "interesting" 4 (or 5 I still don't understand the par 4/5 on 14) hole, all par-4 finish. 17 in particular reminded me a little of 14 at Minneapolis Golf Club and 16 at Interlachen. In fact I wonder if Willie Kidd modeled the 16th at ICC after the other two as it has a very similar feel to them both.
Did you know World Woods has the best burger I've ever had in my entire life? I'm planning a trip back just for another one between rounds.

"I would love to be a woman golfer." -JC Jones

Patrick Hodgdon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Minikahda Club - Paging Anthony Pioppi
« Reply #6 on: October 08, 2013, 03:04:41 PM »
Sorry to be out of the loop.

The three holes across Excelsior date to the original 9-hole routing that opened in 1899 with William Watson, Robert Foulis and Minikahda member/founder Clive T. Jaffray taking design credit. At the time, this part of Minneapolis was in the hinterlands and the the  road was single lane and dirt. Through all the routings, the first hole has always been the same. Originally, golfers then crossed over and played today's 15=17 as 2-4. The fifth hole was odd. The tee was roughly to the right of the existing 15th tee and the green was where the sod farm is now. Players would finish the hole and walk back to the tee, recross the road and play the sixth, which is roughly today's second hole.

The course was expanded to 18 somewhere around 1907 by the Minikahda head golf professional and Jaffray. The routing, I believe, turned the holes across the street into 14-17, although there was talk of them being kept as 2-5. In 1908, Thomas Bendelow arrived for a complete redo of the course. He kept the four holes as 14-17. On page 34 of "The History of The Minikahda Club Golf Course" there is a map of how the Bendlow course might have appeared. The Donald Ross hole-by-hole drawings show many existing features and the notes talk about them, as well. Tim Gerrish did a fine job creating the drawing.

Ross eliminated the weird par-3 on his 1916 plans.

Ross's 15th hole was much more of a dogleg. When Excelsior was expanded, the tee was moved away from the road. The green was also rebuilt but I don't think because of the road widening. I believe that the 25th anniversary book talks about a new green.

On the Ross drawings, 17 of the greens are detailed, but the drawing for the 15th is odd, almost a perfect diamond shape as if he forgot to finish it.

My understanding is that the new book is available in the pro shop.

I hope this helps.

If you need more, AnthonyPioppi@gmail.com.

Anthony


Thanks Anthony, I very much appreciate the insight and I will try and get back over to the shop soon to get the book too.

So was Ross' only true addition redesign the par-3 6th that was built into the then swamp (to replace the hole he took out across the road)?
Did you know World Woods has the best burger I've ever had in my entire life? I'm planning a trip back just for another one between rounds.

"I would love to be a woman golfer." -JC Jones

ANTHONYPIOPPI

Re: The Minikahda Club - Paging Anthony Pioppi
« Reply #7 on: October 08, 2013, 07:00:10 PM »
Ross made significant modifications. The course was lambasted after the 1916 U.S. Open.

What I found interesting, is how much of Bendelow's work Ross kept, including the par-3 seventh hole, 200-yards plus, blind, over a rise down to a natural Punchbowl green. Ross made changes to it, but he essentially kept the hole the way it was. It was abandoned prior to the 1927 U.S. Am when the tee of the next hole was moved back and the existing 8th hole was created.


Anthony

Patrick Hodgdon

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Re: The Minikahda Club - Paging Anthony Pioppi
« Reply #8 on: October 09, 2013, 10:54:59 AM »
Ross made significant modifications. The course was lambasted after the 1916 U.S. Open.

What I found interesting, is how much of Bendelow's work Ross kept, including the par-3 seventh hole, 200-yards plus, blind, over a rise down to a natural Punchbowl green. Ross made changes to it, but he essentially kept the hole the way it was. It was abandoned prior to the 1927 U.S. Am when the tee of the next hole was moved back and the existing 8th hole was created.


Anthony


Thanks Anthony, sounds like a cool par-3.
Did you know World Woods has the best burger I've ever had in my entire life? I'm planning a trip back just for another one between rounds.

"I would love to be a woman golfer." -JC Jones

ANTHONYPIOPPI

Re: The Minikahda Club
« Reply #9 on: October 09, 2013, 12:38:44 PM »
The hole is still there and could be easily restored. Imprints of the old bunkers are still findable.

Anthony

Patrick Hodgdon

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Re: The Minikahda Club
« Reply #10 on: October 09, 2013, 12:44:12 PM »
The hole is still there and could be easily restored. Imprints of the old bunkers are still findable.

Anthony


Now that would be cool.

Where was/is it in relation to today's layout?
Did you know World Woods has the best burger I've ever had in my entire life? I'm planning a trip back just for another one between rounds.

"I would love to be a woman golfer." -JC Jones

ANTHONYPIOPPI

Re: The Minikahda Club
« Reply #11 on: October 10, 2013, 10:32:47 PM »
You would stand on the current 12th tee and turn 180 degrees. The green, if I remember correctly, would sit in front of the current irrigation control boxes.

One of the more amusing discoveries during my research was that Ross butchered the name of the club on his drawings.

Rather than The Minikahda Club, he has it listed as Minnekhada G. Club.



Dan Kelly

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Re: The Minikahda Club
« Reply #12 on: October 10, 2013, 10:47:37 PM »
Rather than The Minikahda Club, he has it listed as Minnekhada G. Club.


No one is perfect.

Actually, I have seen the drawings in question, and I believe the name he used changed from drawing to drawing.

As I said, no one is perfect.
"There's no money in doing less." -- Joe Hancock, 11/25/2010
"Rankings are silly and subjective..." -- Tom Doak, 3/12/2016

Rick Shefchik

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Re: The Minikahda Club
« Reply #13 on: October 11, 2013, 11:33:44 AM »
Ross's drawing of the his re-routing of Minneapolis Golf Club was mislabeled "Minneapolis Country Club," apparently causing it to be mis-filed and lost for decades.
"Golf is 20 percent mechanics and technique. The other 80 percent is philosophy, humor, tragedy, romance, melodrama, companionship, camaraderie, cussedness and conversation." - Grantland Rice

Dan Kelly

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Re: The Minikahda Club
« Reply #14 on: October 11, 2013, 11:41:37 AM »
Ross's drawing of the his re-routing of Minneapolis Golf Club was mislabeled "Minneapolis Country Club," apparently causing it to be mis-filed and lost for decades.

Maybe we could find his WBYC work if we looked under "White Bear Boating Society"!
"There's no money in doing less." -- Joe Hancock, 11/25/2010
"Rankings are silly and subjective..." -- Tom Doak, 3/12/2016

Rick Shefchik

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Re: The Minikahda Club
« Reply #15 on: October 12, 2013, 12:54:14 PM »
Now, Dan, you know very well that Ross didn't do anything at WBYC.
 
"Golf is 20 percent mechanics and technique. The other 80 percent is philosophy, humor, tragedy, romance, melodrama, companionship, camaraderie, cussedness and conversation." - Grantland Rice

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