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Kevin Pallier

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Re: Is William Flynn's Achilles' heel par fives?
« Reply #25 on: September 11, 2013, 07:45:27 PM »
Jim,

Quote
I would suggest that every architect's Achilles heal is his par 5's.

The exception, for mine, is Coore & Crenshaw.

1, 14, 16 at Sand Hills all great holes.
1, 8, 12 at Barnbougle Lost Farm are all standouts.
Friar's Head has a sublime set.

Jim

I would say short P4's instead of P5's

Mayday

I agreee with Scott 7 at Lancaster is a beauty and Rolling Greens P5's weren't too shabby from memory ?

mike_malone

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is William Flynn's Achilles' heel par fives?
« Reply #26 on: September 11, 2013, 10:03:55 PM »
I wanted to spark some comment so I used hyperbole to some extent. I should probably have said that Flynn's 5's are below the high standards of his 3's and 4's. I need to see Kittanset. Based on ACC, Indian Creek (2 I have played) and Shinnecock, which I have seen Flynn does a nice job on the water.  I exempted RG from the analysis because of my bias
AKA Mayday

Patrick_Mucci

Re: Is William Flynn's Achilles' heel par fives?
« Reply #27 on: September 11, 2013, 10:33:42 PM »
Bill,

 I think the collection of Par 5's at Ridgewood is outstanding.

I think AWT may have been the best amongst his peers in that regard.

I wonder if certain architects are more adept at designing certain holes (par 3, par 4 or par 5)

Par 5's would seem to be the most difficult to design because of the difficulty in positioning them in a routing and the length of the holes

mike_malone

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is William Flynn's Achilles' heel par fives?
« Reply #28 on: September 11, 2013, 11:25:57 PM »
Par5's have the biggest difference in approach distances which makes design a nightmare , I assume.
AKA Mayday

Malcolm Mckinnon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is William Flynn's Achilles' heel par fives?
« Reply #29 on: September 12, 2013, 12:41:48 AM »
Mayday,

I have given this some thought  and  am ready to interject .

I like two of the three par fives at Springdale for their strategic aspects. (Yes these are Flynn renovations which follow  closely but not exactly the  earlier Lambert routing).

The current number four hole does not  challenge the golfer so much with shot value on the first two blows  but the third to a narrow skyline green, deeply bunkered on both sides and with a false front and  a sharp left to right contouring,not all that evident from the fairway, gives pause to most members.

The  current  number twelve is reachable in two for the longer hitter but gets more and more constricted by encroaching trees in the final 120 yards so that a missed shot right or left will have a highly unlikely chance of finding the green in three. I find this aspect similar to the fifteenth at Pine. Valley, another Flynn hole, where the corridor of play gets narrower as you approach the green.

All in all I have a hard time conjuring up what I would deem truly great par fives in my mind that don't involve forced carries over some kind of Hells Half Acre complexes. However, I'm willing and ready to replay a bunch of Flynn courses so as to reevaluate the strategic merits of each and every one of their par fives.

Surely, a dismal job but I am willing to volunteer.

Malcolm



mike_malone

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is William Flynn's Achilles' heel par fives?
« Reply #30 on: September 12, 2013, 10:49:31 AM »
Yes Malcolm that is the great and arduous task----playing the courses.
AKA Mayday

Jim_Coleman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is William Flynn's Achilles' heel par fives?
« Reply #31 on: September 12, 2013, 10:54:44 AM »
Kevin:  I agree #7 at Lancaster is great, but the back nine par 5 (13?) is lousy - driver, 7 iron, wedge.
Pat:  Tillie's par 5's at Cricket are ordinary at best.  All 3 (soon to be 2?) go in the same direction and are unremarkable.

Mark McKeever

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is William Flynn's Achilles' heel par fives?
« Reply #32 on: September 12, 2013, 10:59:31 AM »
Kevin:  I agree #7 at Lancaster is great, but the back nine par 5 (13?) is lousy - driver, 7 iron, wedge.
Pat:  Tillie's par 5's at Cricket are ordinary at best.  All 3 (soon to be 2?) go in the same direction and are unremarkable.


-7 at Lancaster has changed from its original state
-Cricket's par 5's are currently being transformed back to their original glory.  Time will tell if your opinion is swayed there..

MM
Best MGA showers - Bayonne

"Dude, he's a total d***"

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