[Jim_Kennedy]

Pat,
Sounds like you fellows were so far ahead of the trailing groups that you could have skipped past the grounds crew then gone back and played the holes you missed before anyone would have reached them, thereby finishing in 2:30.  

lots of assumptions that the grounds crew was only on one hole......unlikely

No assumptions being made on my part, just having a bit of fun with Pat on one of the sillier rants I've read on this site.  

[Dan Grossman]

Its interesting to read the horror stories of pace of play while playing Pebble Beach.  I've only been fortunate enough to play Pebble once, and we didn't have an issue.  We played in on a Monday in February 2001 about a week prior to the AT&T pro-am.  They had all the bleachers up and the course was in great condition.  We teed off between 8am - 9am, I believe and we played in about 3:45.  My buddy and I just grabbed our bags and walked to the first tee.  We didn't have to take a cart or a caddie.  

[Mark Chaplin]

There is a massive difference between galloping around a course you play every week and a once in a lifetime (for many) course. Especially when you are paying $500+ for the round, more money than sense IMHO. It is understandable people want to take in the whole experience.

When I played CPC this year, it was very slow and took us nearly 5 hours to get around, we had to wait 30+ minutes on the 16th tee, 30 very pleasant minutes!

[John Percival]

This whole thread sounds like that old George Carlin observation..."You ever notice that people who drive faster than you are maniacs and those who drive slower are morons?"

[Carl Johnson]

Question for Pat - Your round at PB - were the three of you (assuming you'd not bring in the single) playing a game - skins, 9's, wolf, or something else, or were you just playing the course?

[Ted Cahill]

Pat- one of the most interesting posts I have read from you- thanks for this.  Little irritates me more than seeing signs at a number of courses sternly telling players they expect a brisk pace of play and then set a 4:30 pace!!!  Or starters claiming the same.  I imagine a most on this board have had to deal with pro shop staff giving you a pained look when you ask to go out first and promise to play quick- the pro shop staff know there will  be issues with the maintenance.  Listen-  I am not anti pro shop or maintenance staff- but can't we achieve a culture or standard where its understood between us "dewsweepers" and staff that we will be courteous as we play through and they will not begrudge us our early/quick rounds?

[Garland Bayley]

Greg,

"I know that Yale is a union shop and the greenkeeping crew do very well there, the highest paid greenkeepers I have ever met. Starting wages come to about $60k/year with overtime plus just about every benefit you can think of. "

So what's wrong with Pebble Beach? They should be able to have better than Yale, because they charge a heck of a lot more for a round.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Pat,

Sounds like you fellows were so far ahead of the trailing groups that you could have skipped past the grounds crew then gone back and played the holes you missed before anyone would have reached them, thereby finishing in 2:30.  

lots of assumptions that the grounds crew was only on one hole......unlikely

Jeff,

You're correct

The grounds crew was spread over 3 or 4 holes ahead of us.

[Patrick_Mucci]

So how many pictures did you guys take? 

One fellow took plenty.

What else are you going to do when you have to wait around and can't play golf

[Patrick_Mucci]

So at Garden City Golf Club you are warned not to take longer than 3:30 to complete your round but at Pebble as the first time of the day you should be able to get around as a 4 ball in 2:30?

That's NOT what I said or inferred.
What I said, that only a moron would miss, is that if you start off with an expectation of a 4:30 time, it will soon devolve into a 5:30 and 6:30 time, and that they should strive for 3:30 with the early groups and let it devolve to 4:30 with the last groups, not 6:30.

Private men only club on a flat site with a culture geared toward fast play versus a resort/public course with a fair amount of elevation change with a predominantly tourist clientele. I see the analogy and it must have made quite an impression on the staff. You should have told them that you had errands to do when you were done because that usually works. Oh that's right you did.....

With Green Fees of $ 500, as the first group off, we should be entitled to play in less than 4:30,
Unless you feel that 4:30 is an acceptable time for the first round of the day.

Do you think that 4:30 is an acceptable time for the first round of the day ?

Tim,

Today, our group played the Shore course this morning in 2:50 and the Dunes course this afternoon in 2:45.
And, we never rushed.
The 7:50 time was a little annoyed when we teed off ahead of them, as we were scheduled for 8:00, but they were on # 14 when we finished
The twosome in front of us kept turning around and looking at us, no doubt asking themselves, who are those guys.  

[Carl Johnson]

Question for Pat - Your round at PB - were the three of you (assuming you'd not bring in the single) playing a game - skins, 9's, wolf, or something else, or were you just playing the course?

[BHoover]

IMO, with a green fee of $500+, you damn well should be allowed to play as quickly as you want. End of story.

[Dan Herrmann]

As we say on Twitter, #firstworldproblem

For your reading enjoyment:  https://twitter.com/search?q=%23firstworldproblem

[Tim Martin]

So at Garden City Golf Club you are warned not to take longer than 3:30 to complete your round but at Pebble as the first time of the day you should be able to get around as a 4 ball in 2:30?

That's NOT what I said or inferred.
What I said, that only a moron would miss, is that if you start off with an expectation of a 4:30 time, it will soon devolve into a 5:30 and 6:30 time, and that they should strive for 3:30 with the early groups and let it devolve to 4:30 with the last groups, not 6:30.

Private men only club on a flat site with a culture geared toward fast play versus a resort/public course with a fair amount of elevation change with a predominantly tourist clientele. I see the analogy and it must have made quite an impression on the staff. You should have told them that you had errands to do when you were done because that usually works. Oh that's right you did.....

With Green Fees of $ 500, as the first group off, we should be entitled to play in less than 4:30,
Unless you feel that 4:30 is an acceptable time for the first round of the day.

Do you think that 4:30 is an acceptable time for the first round of the day ?

Tim,

Today, our group played the Shore course this morning in 2:50 and the Dunes course this afternoon in 2:45.
And, we never rushed.
The 7:50 time was a little annoyed when we teed off ahead of them, as we were scheduled for 8:00, but they were on # 14 when we finished
The twosome in front of us kept turning around and looking at us, no doubt asking themselves, who are those guys.  

You set yourself up to fail going in knowing that you were not going to play in 2:30. You played Pebble Beach in 3:20 and wanted your money back but state above they should strive for 3:30 for the early groups of which you were one. The staff must have gotten a good laugh after the attempted shakedown and as you no doubt sprinted out the door to make up for lost errand time.

[JLahrman]

As we say on Twitter, #firstworldproblem

For your reading enjoyment:  https://twitter.com/search?q=%23firstworldproblem

I think that not knowing how to share your first world problem on Twitter is probably the ultimate first world problem.

Did you hear the one about the priest, the rabbi, and the guy who wanted his money back after playing Pebble Beach in 3:20?

[Mark Steffey]

i would bet if they did let guys play through the grounds crew, they would hear them in the shop afterwards asking for a refund because they played bunkers that weren't properly raked or greens that weren't cut  -- thereby not being worthy of the 5 bills fare!!!

[William_G]

back when golf was not such a BUSINESS and Pebble was under $50 it was still highly regulated w/ carts/caddies

now from an ECONOMIC standpoint>>>speedier play would equal more players at $550 per round   duh

[William_G]

Could be the West Coast is out of it entirely, LOL

[Tim Gavrich]

Playing world-class golf courses at breakneck pace AND getting to putt the fastest greens that ever were or will be?!?! Pat, you're my hero!

Perhaps on your next jaunt to the Monterey Peninsula/Forest of Arden, you might just stick to playing all the private clubs that will more graciously quench your thirst for vanity round times.

Also, I just can't get on board with the line of thinking that contends that if you pay an exorbitant amount for something, you're entitled to certain transgressions of the rules that attend the purchase or possession of that something. That strikes me as akin to saying, "Well, I'm paying $100,000 for this Range Rover; surely those STOP sign nuisances don't really need to apply to me anymore!"

[Patrick_Mucci]

Question for Pat - Your round at PB - were the three of you (assuming you'd not bring in the single) playing a game - skins, 9's, wolf, or something else, or were you just playing the course?

Carl,

We weren't competing against one another, we were just having fun with each other and trying to play the best we could.

The one thing I noticed was that the 18th hole has become unsightly with all of the modern homes flanking the hole.
You don't seem to notice them as much on other holes because they're off to the side, whereas, when you play 18, you're almost aiming right at them from the tee

[Patrick_Mucci]

Playing world-class golf courses at breakneck pace AND getting to putt the fastest greens that ever were or will be?!?! Pat, you're my hero!

Perhaps on your next jaunt to the Monterey Peninsula/Forest of Arden, you might just stick to playing all the private clubs that will more graciously quench your thirst for vanity round times.

"Vanity round times" ?
Only a moron would make that statement

Also, I just can't get on board with the line of thinking that contends that if you pay an exorbitant amount for something, you're entitled to certain transgressions of the rules that attend the purchase or possession of that something.

First, you're a moron.

Second, What rules ?  What "transgressions of the rules" ?
There are no published rules.
And, they emphasize fast play.
They lecture you on it in the Pro Shop when you register, then the Starter lectures you, then on the first tee they lecture you.
When's the last time you played Pebble Beach ?
Have you ever played Pebble Beach ?
  
Pebble Beach failed to notify us, when we made the first tee time of the day, that we couldn't play faster than 4:30.
And, we specifically informed them that we wanted the first time so that we wouldn't be held up and that we'd play quickly.
We disclosed our position at the outset, they never disclosed theirs.
Had they done so, and I believe that they were obligated to inform us of this policy, we never would have agreed to play there, and we'd have accepted invitations to play somewhere else.  

That strikes me as akin to saying, "Well, I'm paying $100,000 for this Range Rover; surely those STOP sign nuisances don't really need to apply to me anymore!"

If that "strikes you as akin" then you're a much bigger moron than I thought.
Imbecile would be a more apt description

[Bill_McBride]

back when golf was not such a BUSINESS and Pebble was under $50 it was still highly regulated w/ carts/caddies

now from an ECONOMIC standpoint>>>speedier play would equal more players at $550 per round   duh

My last round at Pebble in 1978 cost $65, I carried my bag, and we played in about 3:50.  

Had to, four impatient wives were waiting in the Tap Room.  

[William_G]

Question for Pat - Your round at PB - were the three of you (assuming you'd not bring in the single) playing a game - skins, 9's, wolf, or something else, or were you just playing the course?

Carl,

We weren't competing against one another, we were just having fun with each other and trying to play the best we could.

The one thing I noticed was that the 18th hole has become unsightly with all of the modern homes flanking the hole.
You don't seem to notice them as much on other holes because they're off to the side, whereas, when you play 18, you're almost aiming right at them from the tee

those homes have always been there...maybe your draw/hook is becoming more pronounced...why so negative about PB, sounds like you should've just played the par-3, LOL

[Rich Goodale]

back when golf was not such a BUSINESS and Pebble was under $50 it was still highly regulated w/ carts/caddies

now from an ECONOMIC standpoint>>>speedier play would equal more players at $550 per round   duh

My last round at Pebble in 1978 cost $65, I carried my bag, and we played in about 3:50.  

Had to, four impatient wives were waiting in the Tap Room.  

So you had 4 wives then, Bil, and probably lived in Utahl........  What #Wife was Kathleen?

[JMEvensky]

back when golf was not such a BUSINESS and Pebble was under $50 it was still highly regulated w/ carts/caddies

now from an ECONOMIC standpoint>>>speedier play would equal more players at $550 per round   duh

My last round at Pebble in 1978 cost $65, I carried my bag, and we played in about 3:50.  

Had to, four impatient wives were waiting in the Tap Room.  

So you had 4 wives then, Bil, and probably lived in Utahl........  What #Wife was Kathleen?

I swear I wanted to go for a Mormon joke but didn't have the balls.

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