Planet Golf - Darius Oliver

[Greg Tallman]

His take on the recent GOLF Magazine list... pulls no punches.

As with the 2013 USA Top 100 list, here again there is little change at the top with most of the top 30 or 40 courses only shifting a few places, if at all. The big winner among the top 40 is Barnbougle Dunes in Australia, which moves from 41st place into 34th in the world. It was an exact swap with the New South Wales GC, which went from 34th out to 41st. The second course at Barnbougle, Lost Farm, also improved (from 82 to 72) while the East Course at Royal Melbourne (94th) reappears after missing out in 2011.

Of the newcomers on the list, most attention will focus on Trump International in Scotland (50), Cabot Links in Canada (82) and Shanqin Bay in China (78), the first course from that country to ever make the list. While Shanqin Bay is certainly worthy of the accolade, it’s virtually impossible for outsiders to play. The same is true of Nine Bridges in Korea (45), a perennial favorite of this panel but one that seems completely outclassed by the other courses around it. The fact the club flies judges to Jeju Island and hosts a lavish, private tournament every couple of years obviously works in its favor.

Oitavos Dunes in Portugal is another course that the GOLF Magazine panel seems overly enamoured by. It’s certainly a good course for Portugal, but a stretch at 65 in the world. The same could be said of Kauri Cliffs, a good course but surely not 74th in the world and directly in front of Ballyneal. Of the older courses, Oakland Hills (38), Olympic Club (57), Southern Hills (64), Maidstone (67), Inverness (83) and Royal Adelaide (99) should all feel fortunate, as should Medinah No. 3 (85), whose presence on top 100 lists continues to hurt panel credibility.
http://www.planetgolf.com/index.php?id=1841&utm_source=Planet+Golf+Subscribers&utm_campaign=fcbf809765-Planet_Golf_News_August_138_23_2013&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_845871f1b6-fcbf809765-39218233

[John Kavanaugh]

Greg,

Who is this guy and why is he complaining about access?

"While Shanqin Bay is certainly worthy of the accolade, it’s virtually impossible for outsiders to play. The same is true of Nine Bridges in Korea (45), a perennial favorite of this panel but one that seems completely outclassed by the other courses around it. The fact the club flies judges to Jeju Island and hosts a lavish, private tournament every couple of years obviously works in its favor."

What makes Shanqin Bay more impossible to play than the great private courses in America?

[Mike Schott]

Why the dislike towards Oakland Hills? What is the take on why it's moving down on so many lists?

[Alex Miller]

Have not played (m)any of the courses talked about besides the brief mention of Ballyneal, but the only major disagreemant I have with Oliver's thoughts here are on Maidstone. I saw some pictures of recent work and that #67 ranking will be more than appropriate once it's played enough.

[Jud_T]

Which list do you prefer?:

http://www.planetgolf.com/index.php?id=1841

http://www.planetgolf.com/index.php?id=55

[Greg Tallman]

Greg,

Who is this guy and why is he complaining about access?

"While Shanqin Bay is certainly worthy of the accolade, it’s virtually impossible for outsiders to play. The same is true of Nine Bridges in Korea (45), a perennial favorite of this panel but one that seems completely outclassed by the other courses around it. The fact the club flies judges to Jeju Island and hosts a lavish, private tournament every couple of years obviously works in its favor."

What makes Shanqin Bay more impossible to play than the great private courses in America?

Surely you are not asking to speak to what HIS thoughts are?

That said, I do not believe access is the point he is really trying to make.

[David_Tepper]

For those who are ignorant of Planet Golf & Darius Oliver:

http://planetgolfusa.com/

[Mike Schott]

For those who are ignorant of Planet Golf & Darius Oliver:

http://planetgolfusa.com/

Thanks David. There are some very nicely written and researched reviews on that site.

[Richard Choi]

This is just a manifestation of scientifically established human biases. We enjoy things that are more valuable, even if it is inherently same as less valuable item, and we have string urgencies to return favors.

These course operators are just smart to take advantage of those tendencies to get their courses rated higher than otherwise. Making things ultra exclusives and doling out extravagant favors works are textbook ways to do it.

[John Kavanaugh]

This is just a manifestation of scientifically established human biases. We enjoy things that are more valuable, even if it is inherently same as less valuable item, and we have string urgencies to return favors.

These course operators are just smart to take advantage of those tendencies to get their courses rated higher than otherwise. Making things ultra exclusives and doling out extravagant favors works are textbook ways to do it.

True but given Darius's travels he is an odd duck to be quacking off. How are his rankings unbiased?

His profile: http://planetgolfusa.com/index.php?id=56

[Richard Choi]

The only way to stay unbiased is to do it the way Consumer Reports does it; buy all products with your own funds and do not accept advertising or freebies. I don't know if Planet Golf follows that or not, but any entity that reviews anything without that philosophy is of dubious usefulness.

[SL_Solow]

I had the pleasure of meeting Darius and playing with him when he visited Olympia Fields.  He is a very nice young man who is very interested in GCA and has studied the subject thoroughly.  Like any critic, he brings his biases with him.  I think he is very clear about what appeals to him and why he rates courses the way he does.  I suspect his remarks about the manner in which some of the courses market themselves is an effort to try and understand why he rates them differently fom the other raters.  In any event, the impact of any critic in any field ultimately comes down to whether their analysis and presentation is convincing to the reader.  there is no litmus test that qualifies anyone as a critic; either people are interested in what they say or they aren't.

[Connor Dougherty]

I've long respected Darius' opinion as his writings on each of the courses is incredibly detailed and, while we may not agree with him, gives his reasoning for his opinions.

He does say that Shanqin Bay is worthy of the accolade and I think is just adding a comment by saying it's a shame that many of us won't get to see it.

I'm a little surprised to see his harsh remarks for the older clubs that made the list. I've heard great things about all of the courses mentioned and the two I've seen, Olympic Club and Royal Adelaide, I thought were both tremendous. He's been very vocal about the 17th hole at RA but the other 17 holes are wonderful and once the 17th is brought to character with the other holes on the course (or the other way around) it's worthy of that ranking IMO.

[Tom_Doak]

What makes Shanqin Bay more impossible to play than the great private courses in America?

There are not 200 members of Shanquin Bay to try to hit up.  There are only a handful.  Essentially, if the owner doesn't invite you, you don't play ... the way Shadow Creek was when it started.

[John Kavanaugh]

What makes Shanqin Bay more impossible to play than the great private courses in America?

There are not 200 members of Shanquin Bay to try to hit up.  There are only a handful.  Essentially, if the owner doesn't invite you, you don't play ... the way Shadow Creek was when it started.

That sounds wonderful. I always regretted that I didn't get to play Shadow Creek before it went "public".  Golf could use a few more old school private courses.

[Tom_Doak]

That sounds wonderful. I always regretted that I didn't get to play Shadow Creek before it went "public".  Golf could use a few more old school private courses.

John:

It is lovely, if you're one of the privileged.  And all such clubs play the privilege card very selectively with raters, which I thought was something you're not a fan of.

Another such place is Ellerston, the late Kerry Packer's private course ... which Darius Oliver takes every chance to promote! 

[John Kavanaugh]

That sounds wonderful. I always regretted that I didn't get to play Shadow Creek before it went "public".  Golf could use a few more old school private courses.

John:

It is lovely, if you're one of the privileged.  And all such clubs play the privilege card very selectively with raters, which I thought was something you're not a fan of.

Another such place is Ellerston, the late Kerry Packer's private course ... which Darius Oliver takes every chance to promote!  

If it weren't for raters and the damn system my experience of great private courses would be very limited and my wallet much lighter.  I always wanted to play Canyata because it was only 30 miles from my office, what do you know but a rater buddy came through town and I got my wish. I'm not above hating the game while loving the players.

I think Darius was saying the same thing when he accuses raters at Nine Bridges for being influenced by great treatment.  We all know of plenty of great highly ranked courses that fly raters on private planes. There is little value is singling any one out.

[Mark Chaplin]

Tom it was the perfect contradiction he moans about access, then rates Ellerston so highly and that's not a club but someone's private estate.

[Mike Sweeney]

Tom it was the perfect contradiction he moans about access, then rates Ellerston so highly and that's not a club but someone's private estate.

Mark,

Can you list the last 10 courses that you have played in the United States of America? Thanks 

[Bill_McBride]

JakaB:  "We all know of plenty of great highly ranked courses that fly raters on private planes."

Can you name a few?  This is interesting, even mysterious stuff!

[Hugh Griffin]

Tom it was the perfect contradiction he moans about access, then rates Ellerston so highly and that's not a club but someone's private estate.

He raises access as a point but at no stage does this seem to influence his assessment or rating of the course. In fact he specifically states that "Shanqin Bay is certainly worthy of the accolade" and conversely "Nine Bridges in Korea... seems completely outclassed by the other courses around it".

The fact they are difficult to play is just an issue he raises and seems completely separate to their specific ratings. As such i don't think there is any contradiction between his "moaning" here and his rating of Ellerston.

Personally I have found all of his articles and assessments unbiased and of the courses i have played which he has rated, mainly throughout Australia and New Zealand, also very accurate. It will be interesting to see if he can continue to be unbiased when making assessments of the new course being built at Cape Wickham on King Island....

[John Kavanaugh]

Oliver promotes himself as a consultant.  Does he mention which courses he has worked for? Or for that matter, which courses he hasn't?

[Jud_T]

Personally I have found all of his articles and assessments unbiased and of the courses i have played which he has rated, mainly throughout Australia and New Zealand, also very accurate. It will be interesting to see if he can continue to be unbiased when making assessments of the new course being built at Cape Wickham on King Island....

Hugh,

If you feel he's been impartial about all the other courses down under, what would lead you to be concerned he might not be when it comes to these new tracks?

[John Kavanaugh]

Personally I have found all of his articles and assessments unbiased and of the courses i have played which he has rated, mainly throughout Australia and New Zealand, also very accurate. It will be interesting to see if he can continue to be unbiased when making assessments of the new course being built at Cape Wickham on King Island....

Hugh,

If you feel he's been impartial about all the other courses down under, what would lead you to be concerned he might not be when it comes to these new tracks?

Jud,

Just cause someone finally puts Kingsley on a list....

[Eric Smith]

Jud,

I believe Hugh is referring to the fact that Darius is a consultant on the King Island project.

http://www.planetgolf.com/index.php?id=1832