[Jim_Kennedy]

3-green was moved more than one full green width to the left (blind, behind the hill) and for years many thought it was an Alps hole. Too many balls were hit into the pond when 3-green was first built. Remember this was a course built for students, faculty and such, not for a group of low handicappers. Many approaches were sliced into the pond. Also, the area where 3green "lived" was quite low.

Losing that great green was a travesty. It was one of Raynor's best green. Very few with this configuration were ever built. The most notable being the 6th at Creek.

My first trip trek around Yale's course was about 25 years ago. I hit a tee shot on #3 to 'position A', then proceeded to hit an approach right over the center of the saddle, only to find out that the green wasn't where I thought it would be.  

Twelve years later I met George and found out that I was right .  

'Biggest' course I have ever seen.


 

  

[Jim Hoak]

Many years ago, I played the Yale course on a regular basis, and it is still burned lovingly into my memory.  But, when I played it a few years ago, for the first time in decades, I was struck by how many of the cross-bunkers had been eliminated.  Was my memory of these being eliminated accurate?  Does anyone know why?  Dumbing it down for the massive public, non-University play they have?  It still remained the course of my youth and one of my all time favorites, but I miss the cross-bunkering I remember.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Tom Doak,

Forgetting about the legal aspects for the moment, if match play were the only form of play, what, if anything, would be different about your design philosophy and the courses you produce ?

[Joe Bausch]

Many years ago, I played the Yale course on a regular basis, and it is still burned lovingly into my memory.  But, when I played it a few years ago, for the first time in decades, I was struck by how many of the cross-bunkers had been eliminated.  Was my memory of these being eliminated accurate?  Does anyone know why?  Dumbing it down for the massive public, non-University play they have?  It still remained the course of my youth and one of my all time favorites, but I miss the cross-bunkering I remember.

Check out HistoricAerials.com Jim to see if it confirms your memories of the cross-bunkers.  I just took a quick glance and with the years they have, I don't see them.

[Mike Sweeney]

Here is 1934 vs 2013 aerials. I only see the 18th cross bunker missing now and that was taken out a long long time ago:

http://golfcoursehistories.com/Yale.html

[Mark Bourgeois]

Besides 18, 10 used to have cross bunkers.

[Mark Pearce]

I can't think of another course you could say that about.

Looking at Joe Bausch's pics, if you combine the quirky holes of De Pan and Royal Hague you get a long way......

Frank,

You're right about the scale of Royal Hague being in the same bracket.  I loved De Pan but  it didn't strike me as quirky to anywhere near the same extent as Yale.

Another course that struck me as being on a grand scale in a similar way to Yale was Lawsonia Links.  

[George_Bahto]

Jim Hoak: there a fairway bunker on  18.  

On the 10th there were originally 2 bunkers built into the face of the hill on your tee-ball but was removes many many moons ago

A bunker way off left on the seventh and a bunker in the area between first and second fairways (in the rough)

That was the extent of the non green side bunkering on the course.

Raynor let the topography and his routing be his fairway strategy.

[Jim Hoak]

Thanks, George.  My memory is clouded--maybe from all the beer in College.  Been many years too.

[Patrick_Mucci]

George,

Why wouldn't or won't they restore the removed features ?

[Mike Sweeney]

George,

Why wouldn't or won't they restore the removed features ?

They did add back in the left fairway bunker on #1, and the cross bunker on #12 when Rulewich did his work. Take a look at Mark's aerial.

http://golfcoursehistories.com/Yale.html

The ones on #10 appear to be directional bunkers, and not really in play. The others seem to be out of play with the exception of #18. That terrain on 18 really does not need a bunker, IMO, but you can argue otherwise later today. I am sure the Yale Board REALLY values the opinion of South Bend graduates

That green on #3 actually looks like it IS in a similar position to the original. It looks like they made the lake smaller to fit in the cart path. I always thought they moved the green away from the water. Today, clearly #3 is not the best green on the course, but it is still one of the most unique holes in USA golf.

[Carl Nichols]

Well put Tom.  Yale sets the bar when I think of bold features at a golf course....and most courses can't come close.  

The only two I can even think about making any sort of comparison are Eastward Ho! and Boston GC. (still dont surpass)

Mark

Very interesting -- I just played Eastward Ho! for the first time and the course I thought it most resembled was BCG.

[Connor Dougherty]

It has been incredibly fun to follow this post as I got ready to play the course today for the GCA outing. The descriptions on here did not disappoint. It was a pleasure to meet so many of the people who contribute so much to this board, and I certainly felt like I had googly eyes the entire round.

My playing partner Jon Stein asked me how I compared it to the Old White course at the Greenbrier. For me, Yale compared much more favorably. Sure, the golf course may not be in as good a shape, but in terms of boldness, it reminded me much more of Camargo. Yale was on a much bigger scale, unlike anything I've ever seen. The greens had more character than most I've seen all summer, ok'd by their slower, yet smooth speeds. As the course gets in better shape in the future, firm conditions will make Yale play particularly well.

It's places like this that remind me how much fun the game can be. As far as rounds on this trip go, along with the rounds at Dismal, Yale was as much fun as I've had all trip. I could play that golf course every day for the rest of my life and be happy.

[Andrew Lewis]

What is it about the Knoll hole you dont like? I think its a great short-4, the ability to shape your tee shot can really gain you a ton of yards and the green has some of the best small contours on a MASSIVE course.

Hi Jaeger -

It's not that I don't like the Knoll hole -- as you note, the tee shot is interesting and its more modest scale is palpable -- it's that I don't like it as much as many of the others.  I don't recall the small contours on the green being noteworthy, but perhaps that's because so many others are all-world.

Cheers, Andrew

[Andrew Lewis]

Andrew, to each his own. In my opinion 11 used to be mundane but no longer is thanks to:
1) recapture of original green perimeter, and
2) equipment(!)

14 remains of great interest; 16 is mundane.

Jaeger, the 2nd, 3rd, 5th, 16th and 18th greens have been changed, some significantly some in relatively minor ways. AND very possibly the 9th: this Sunday we will discuss and debate the evidence.

Hi Mark -

I played the course during the ~2005-09 timeframe, so perhaps that predated the green recapture on 11?

Also, I'm interested in what you mean by equipment.  I don't recall the hole being drive-able -- although perhaps for somebody who hits the ball tour distances?

Best, Andrew

[Tom Dunne]

Andrew, I think 14 is the most underrated hole on the course. If you hit driver, you're often confronted with a sand or gap wedge from a fairly severe hanging lie. It's an awkward shot. Over the years I've made more pars either after mis-hit drives or by laying back with a 5-wood--the fairway is much flatter out by the 150 marker.  

I guess the hole probably is drivable for the collegians, but they play a game with which I am not familiar.

[Tim Martin]

Courtesy of Professor Bausch

[Tim Gavrich]

I've only played Yale a too-small handful of times but would echo the expert Tom Dunne on 14's underratedness. The approach is one of the more interesting wedge shots with which I am familiar.

My favorite feature at Yale, though, is the 12th green. It challenging to conquer in a golf sense and could also be defended militarily. You could essentially put Leonidas' 300 Spartans on the green and they'd be able to defend it like Thermopylae. Just an amazing feature.

I would love to see Yale give a Raynor-/Macdonald-learnèd architect license to make the 16th green complex a bit less mundane, as its relative flatness sticks out somewhat. Same goes, I think (though to a lesser extent), for the 5th and 6th greens. But the golf course is so good--so unrelentingly fun--that if it was just preserved as-is the golf world would be a good and just one.

[George_Bahto]

One nice SUNY afternoon I spent the better part of three hours with the  old super, jogging his memory about the many alterations he had done to the original course. He also gave me his notes on some not the things he did to "improve" the. Playability.

He had just gotten a dozer and went to work.

I'll post some of the things along the way but the moving of 3 green was hitherto most dramatic, to me.

[Joe Bausch]

I've put together a new, smaller, and much better IMHO photo album of Yale based on pictures mostly from an April 2012 visit:

http://xchem.villanova.edu/~bausch/images/albums/Yale2/

[Bill_McBride]

Jim Hoak: there a fairway bunker on  18.  

On the 10th there were originally 2 bunkers built into the face of the hill on your tee-ball but was removes many many moons ago

A bunker way off left on the seventh and a bunker in the area between first and second fairways (in the rough)

That was the extent of the non green side bunkering on the course.

Raynor let the topography and his routing be his fairway strategy.

Plus that wonderfully craggy Principal's Nose on 17!  

[Jud_T]

What would a full blown restoration of Yale cost?  Let's pick a ridiculous number like $5mm.  That's roughly how much interest the Yale endowment earned this past weekend while GCAers trod the fairways.  This is purely a political football where elitist Yale alumns see golf as elitist IMNSHO.  Same goes for a beefed up maintenance budget.  One would think that places like Yale and Michigan would treasure these historic tracks and see them as a feather in their cap.  Don't many of the wealthiest alumni play golf?  Wouldn't a fund-raiser at the course for benefactors be a no-brainer?  Political correctness run amok.  At least Michigan had the good sense to begin a restoration, albeit a long-term plan, and that's probably only because the new AD is a golfer...

[Joe Bausch]

What would a full blown restoration of Yale cost?

What would a full blown restoration of Yale cost?!  I want to know what it would cost to build the second course originally planned!  If approved, which firm would you want to see build it?

[Connor Dougherty]

What would a full blown restoration of Yale cost?

What would a full blown restoration of Yale cost?!  I want to know what it would cost to build the second course originally planned!  If approved, which firm would you want to see build it?

The land was apparently sold so the cause is lost. But it would be fitting for Brian Silva to do the work given his wonderful Raynor-esque course at Black Creek

[Joe Bausch]

What would a full blown restoration of Yale cost?

What would a full blown restoration of Yale cost?!  I want to know what it would cost to build the second course originally planned!  If approved, which firm would you want to see build it?

The land was apparently sold so the cause is lost. But it would be fitting for Brian Silva to do the work given his wonderful Raynor-esque course at Black Creek

 

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