Soule Park (Bell? / Hanse / Wagner) - A Photo Tour!! - Hole 18 Posted

[Mark Saltzman]

Soule Park is FUN.  And it is a golf course that most with an interest in architecture will really like.  In 2005, Gil Hanse and Jim Wagner were brought in to renovate (not restore, I believe) Soule Park.  I don't know the extent of the work involved, but I was told when I played that some of the older members found the renovation too severe -- with bunkers too deep, and top shot / carry bunkers that could not be carried!  I was told the work had been softened some (not sure if this was done by Hanse / Wagner, or if not, if it was done with their blessing), but regardless, what is on the ground today makes for a very enjoyable round.




The first is a short, downhill par-4 that plays from a dramatic tee location, steps from the clubhouse:




The bunkering set into a ridge short of the green deceives the golfer, hiding a gully, and making the green appear closer than it is:




Another shortish par-4 at the 2nd, where the golfer must take on a series of bunkers on the right for a preferred line into the green.  The approach to the 2nd is dominated by a swale short-right of the green, but clever golfers will use the slope over the left bunker to funnel their approach onto the green:




The 3rd is only 145 yards, but deep greenside bunkers and a blind putting surface make this an intimidating tee shot:






The 4th is a relatively benign 505 yard par-5, but interest is created by the pairing of cleverly placed centreline bunker 70 yards from the green, and a green with a severe spine splitting it left and right.  This golfer (me), having laid-up in the wrong side of the fairway, now has a very difficult pitch into the green:






Back-to-back par-5s are a rarity, but the pair of holes at Soule Park should keep most golfers' interest.  Approaching the green, the golfer must play over a diagonal ridge to a blind green.  If the golfer takes on the shorter carry, the leftward slope will kick his ball into rough.  Only golfers taking on the bold line to the right will find the putting surface:




The first-time golfer, not knowing what the green site will look like, will no doubt have a smile on his face as this wonderful punchbowl is revealed:




After the very birdieable 4th and 5th holes, the golfer starts to move back up the hill with the 245 yard 6th:




The drop-down green at the 7th is another exceptional one.  Check out this diagonal ridge in the green!  Missing on the wrong side can mean an impossible recovery:




Another difficult hole at the uphill, 420 yard 8th.  In truth, this is one of the least interesting tee shots on the course, but the golfer will do well to play to the right to leave a simpler angle of approach into another severe green:




In my opinion, the 333 yard 9th misses the mark.  Not only are the mowing lines off (fairway should run up to and left of the trio of fairway bunkers), but the green orientation is such that the golfer will not be sufficiently enticed to risk the dangerous line from the tee.  As seen below, these three bunkers run diagonally across the left side of the hole, but it is a drive to the right, away from the bunkers, that leaves the preferred angle of approach.

[Dan Herrmann]

From the Soule Park website:

n 2005, Soule Park Golf Course was completely re-designed by award winning architects Gil Hanse & Jim Wagner. Soule Park is in a spectacular setting with the best mountain views in the Ojai Valley!

Gil & Jim (Designers of Rustic Canyon in Moorpark) took advantage of the many natural features such as the original routing, mature specimen oak trees and creeks. Their focus was to create a course that would be fun and interesting to play for all levels of golfers. The bunkers and greens are varied in size and shape reminiscent of the golden age of Southern California golf course architecture found in the works of George Thomas & Billy Bell.

[Dan Herrmann]

PS - Does anybody build punchbowls today as frequently or as well as Hanse?  (Referring to the 5th hole description above).

French Creek has 2 traditional punchbowls (9 and 13).  They add significant strategic value.

[Garland Bayley]

It is worth noting that they have reversed the 9s and rerouted the current back 9. I.e., they have diminished the course.

[Lynn_Shackelford]

It is worth noting that they have reversed the 9s and rerouted the current back 9. I.e., they have diminished the course.

How so?

[Garland Bayley]

17 and 18 are the old 1 and 2. The old finish which I thought was great is now 8 and 9.

So what you have is what was an easy opener to ease you into the round is now the penultimate hole. And, what was the beginning of the back nine with a water hazard in play is now the opener.

[Lynn_Shackelford]

17 and 18 are the old 1 and 2. The old finish which I thought was great is now 8 and 9.

So what you have is what was an easy opener to ease you into the round is now the penultimate hole. And, what was the beginning of the back nine with a water hazard in play is now the opener.

Sorry I am still confused.  You liked the current 8th and 9th as the finishing holes?  I agree above with what Mark says above, the 9th doesn't quite work.  The 8th green needs to be rebuilt, something I have mentioned to Gil.
The current opener is a drive to a wide open fairway, the tee is right next to the pro shop and it gets you easily into the round(the water really shouldn't be in play).  Having the old one and two as seventeen and and eighteen get you back into the city.  17 is a tough par 4 especially when the hole is on the right.  18 is a 4 1/2 par which gives you a lot of fun as a finisher.  The change is fairly minor, but I think the locals like the current set-up.

[Garland Bayley]

17 and 18 are the old 1 and 2. The old finish which I thought was great is now 8 and 9.

So what you have is what was an easy opener to ease you into the round is now the penultimate hole. And, what was the beginning of the back nine with a water hazard in play is now the opener.

Sorry I am still confused.  You liked the current 8th and 9th as the finishing holes?  I agree above with what Mark says above, the 9th doesn't quite work.  The 8th green needs to be rebuilt, something I have mentioned to Gil.
The current opener is a drive to a wide open fairway, the tee is right next to the pro shop and it gets you easily into the round(the water really shouldn't be in play).  Having the old one and two as seventeen and and eighteen get you back into the city.  17 is a tough par 4 especially when the hole is on the right.  18 is a 4 1/2 par which gives you a lot of fun as a finisher.  The change is fairly minor, but I think the locals like the current set-up.

Lynn,

Your golf swing is legendary here. However, I am a high handicapper, and I play with high handicappers. The water on the current 1 is most definitely in play.

And what does "get you back into the city" mean and why is it important? Me? I prefer to leave the city.

[Scott Weersing]

When I lived out in Ventura, the course was washed away. So they brought in Hanse to re do it. The first tee at that time was on the other side. The first two holes were on the worst part of the property. But it seems that they went back to the elevated first tee.

The first hole was changed to the 10th hole and then changed back to the first hole.

I guess it does not matter which is the first hole and which is the tenth hole.

[Robert_Ball]

Great summaries of each of the holes, Mark.

I'll try to describe the evolution and changes to the course.  Lynn, our resident Soule Park member can correct me.

Key Milestones
Feb 28, 1961 - City supervisors approve plans to build a golf course in Soule Park, in eastern Ojai
Located on a 194 acre site that was sold to the city by sisters Zaidee & Nina Soule for $50,000.

Aug 11, 1962 - Soule Park Golf Course opens
Designed by William Francis Bell, son of William P. "Billy" Bell.  
Billy had nothing to do with Soule Park- he died in June, 1953.

Spring, 2005 - Heavy rains erode the walls of the large creek that runs through the course, causing significant damage to multiple holes.  The 7th and 15th greens were almost completely washed out.

Gil Hanse and Jim Wagner hired to make repairs and enhancements to the course.  All greens and surrounding bunkers were rebuilt.  Some greens and tees were new.

Here's a before-after example of how the look of the course changed.  This is the approach to #2.


The current front 9 is the original front 9.  Hanse Design had flipped the 9s in order to avoid finishing in the somewhat featureless land between the clubhouse and Ojai Ave.  The club has since since flipped it back.

Routing evolution, changes
#1 - Green moved 20 yards left, near the location of the original 7th green

#2- 6 - Relatively unchanged

#7 - Maybe the most popular hole on the original course.  3rd shot was all carry over Creek.  Now it is a long par 4 to the nice green Mark mentions.

#8 - Originally a brain-dead uphill 300 yarder.  The tee shot plays over the creek now and the new green is about 10 yards left of the original.

#9 - If you remember the original, you can't argue that the current is a big improvement.  Hanse replaced trees with a diagonal bunker complex and moved the green back, combining it with the putting green.

#10 - Probably the one hole that looks exactly like the original, with better green contours.

#11 - This had been #4 in the revised routing.  Scene of the wonderful, new cross-bunker that was filled in by upset members who thought it was unfair.  I think the right third of it is still there.

#12- 14 - Same locations.  14 green moved 5-10 yards back and right.  Cart path rerouted along the outside of the hole

#15 - Pretty much the same.  New cart path cutting in front of the green rubs some people the wrong way but I'm sure there was a good reason for it.

#16 - New green angled diagonally.

#17 - The original 18th played in reverse.  This was the #1 tee shot on the revised routing.  Tee is located on the original two-tier 18th green which was a wonderful setting to finish a round.

#18 - The original 17th played in reverse.  Much improved, reachable par 5 with a diagonal carry over a dry, overgrown ditch.  Another good cart path rerouting- the old 17 had it running along the ditch, almost going right down your line of play.

[Jeff Fortson]

I was in Ojai Thursday and Friday with my wife and kids, sans golf clubs.  I forced them to go with me to the course to just look around.  The course looks like a lot of fun at first glance.  I can't wait to get out there and play sometime in the near future.  Thanks for posting the pics!

Jeff F.

[Lynn_Shackelford]

17 and 18 are the old 1 and 2. The old finish which I thought was great is now 8 and 9.

So what you have is what was an easy opener to ease you into the round is now the penultimate hole. And, what was the beginning of the back nine with a water hazard in play is now the opener.

Sorry I am still confused.  You liked the current 8th and 9th as the finishing holes?  I agree above with what Mark says above, the 9th doesn't quite work.  The 8th green needs to be rebuilt, something I have mentioned to Gil.
The current opener is a drive to a wide open fairway, the tee is right next to the pro shop and it gets you easily into the round(the water really shouldn't be in play).  Having the old one and two as seventeen and and eighteen get you back into the city.  17 is a tough par 4 especially when the hole is on the right.  18 is a 4 1/2 par which gives you a lot of fun as a finisher.  The change is fairly minor, but I think the locals like the current set-up.

Lynn,

Your golf swing is legendary here. However, I am a high handicapper, and I play with high handicappers. The water on the current 1 is most definitely in play.

And what does "get you back into the city" mean and why is it important? Me? I prefer to leave the city.

Gil's thought was to make the land out by Highway 150 #1 and #2.  He said get rid of the city first and then the last 16 holes in a more rural setting.  A valid point, but I like the move back to where you finish out by the highway and near the city.
GJ, if the current #1 worries you with the water, then you must sweat bullets on the current #10!

Robert Ball, impressive summary.  How many times have you played there?  And yes the cross bunker on the current 11th was fabulous and the golfers bitched.  However the pot bunker about 80 yards from the green is brilliantly placed.

[Garland Bayley]

...
The current front 9 is the original front 9.  Hanse Design had flipped the 9s in order to avoid finishing in the somewhat featureless land between the clubhouse and Ojai Ave.  The club has since since flipped it back.
...

I'll take validation from Hanse Design for my opinion.

[Alex Miller]

Hole 9, IMO, can be "fixed" simply by elminating the left side of the right fairway bunker. This would essentially turn it into a pot bunker which would play as a centerline bunker and allow for the option to play left, short, right, and long of that bunker. As it stands now, that large swath of sand calls for awkward layups well right or short and makes the options on the tee fairly limited unless one can carry the ball 270+.

Of course, hitting Driver toward the green is an option too. 

[Garland Bayley]

...
GJ, if the current #1 worries you with the water, then you must sweat bullets on the current #10!
...

As a high handicap lefty slicer, I am much more intimidated by #1. 460 cc drivers are impossible to square the face with. I took out my persimmon driver a few weeks back and shot the low round in my current handicap record. Didn't have a problem slicing it. So normally I can't hit driver on #1.

I can hit a short iron to #10 much easier than hitting driver off #1.

[RJ_Daley]

I'm a bit confused.  Is this a countyl owned facility that is leased out to a concessionaire?  It is open to the public with rates on their website.  When you say "members",  does that mean people that buy a yearly pass or some other form of rights to the facility, who have preference to tee times? The web site is not specific.   

[Lynn_Shackelford]

Hole 9, IMO, can be "fixed" simply by elminating the left side of the right fairway bunker. This would essentially turn it into a pot bunker which would play as a centerline bunker and allow for the option to play left, short, right, and long of that bunker. As it stands now, that large swath of sand calls for awkward layups well right or short and makes the options on the tee fairly limited unless one can carry the ball 270+.

Of course, hitting Driver toward the green is an option too. 

I have thought exactly the same thing several times.

[Lynn_Shackelford]

I'm a bit confused.  Is this a countyl owned facility that is leased out to a concessionaire?  It is open to the public with rates on their website.  When you say "members",  does that mean people that buy a yearly pass or some other form of rights to the facility, who have preference to tee times? The web site is not specific.   

You guessed correctly.  Owned by the County of Ventura, leased to a local pro Tyson York, his first endeavor at operating a course.  It is a daily fee course with a yearly pass available.  The rates have also been pretty low there, most of Ventura County has a daily high of 75 to 80 degrees in July and August, Soule Park more like 95 degrees, so it is hard to get golfers up there in the summer heat.  Fabulous winter climate though.  Tee times are given to the public on a first come first serve basis except for a few men's and senior's club events.

[Robert_Ball]

Robert Ball, impressive summary.  How many times have you played there?

Thanks Lynn.  I played in the Ojai City Championship a few time so, including practice rounds, I enjoyed the pre-Hanse SP about 12-15 times.  What a great setting you have there.

And yes the cross bunker on the current 11th was fabulous and the golfers bitched.  However the pot bunker about 80 yards from the green is brilliantly placed.

Brilliant!

[Mark Saltzman]

The 10th is a drop-shot par-3 with water tight to the green on the right -- a hole the masses will likely love and the bearded will hate:




The 11th is a mid-length par-5 with a perfect pairing of a well-placed centreline bunker in the lay-up area and a series of built-up mounds running along the left side of the green:




At the 12th, golfers that play near the fairway bunkers on the right will enjoy a preferred angle of approach into the green, which falls off sharply on the left:




Up then down the terrain go the 14th and 15th.  The 14th offers a seemingly uninteresting tee shot, but play to the wrong side of the fairway and the golfer will have almost no chance of finding the well protected 14th green:




And the tee shot at the 15th, well, it really just isn't very interesting...




The 16th is a 160 yard par-3 that plays to a sharply tilted green tucked into the hillside:




The 17th and 18th stand alone on the opposite side of the clubhouse and occupy the flattest land on the property.  The 17th is eminently forgettable, as is the 18th, but for the potential thrill of an eagle and a three-tiered green:

[RJ_Daley]

http://www.soulepark.com/rates/

With these rates, I don't know how the local public golfer can go wrong.  Can anyone say what the yearly pass costs, or any other half year pass, or book of X number of green fees purchased as a package?  This seems like it must be the best golf deal based on price and decent enough golf course, in So Cal.  

[Sean_A]

Mark

The course looks interesting.  Thanks for the pix.  Do you think it is worth the drive from say the Wilshire area to have a go?

Ciao

[Mark Saltzman]

Mark

The course looks interesting.  Thanks for the pix.  Do you think it is worth the drive from say the Wilshire area to have a go?

Ciao

Sean, the locals know better than me, but it's probably 90 or so minutes from Wilshire without much traffic. I played Soule as part of a 36 hole day with Rustic and that was perfect. I don't think I would make the drive just for Soule.. 3 hours of driving is a long day. Very good value though.

[Lynn_Shackelford]

Mark

The course looks interesting.  Thanks for the pix.  Do you think it is worth the drive from say the Wilshire area to have a go?

Ciao

First, why are you having to stay in the Wilshire District?  If so, play LACC and Riviera.  36 holes at Rustic Canyon would be better than going to Ojai.  If you want to see Ojai, very pretty place by the way, play Soule Park and Ojai Valley Inn to see Thomas' routing.  Warning, Ojai Valley Inn is pricey.

[Garland Bayley]

When I was there in May we played with a father/son that had played Ojai Valley Inn for $75 on a coupon.