[John Kavanaugh]

I go with Rees cause I don't have a clue who mike Davis is, let alone his pedigree or qualifications.

[Patrick_Mucci]

I go with Rees cause I don't have a clue who mike Davis is, let alone his pedigree or qualifications.

JakaB,

Neither Rees nor Mike can make any changes to any club without the prior approval of the club.

And, I thought Fazio was brought in as the consultant at Merion

When are you coming East ?

[John Kavanaugh]

Coming east?  Funny question. I just spent the weekend in DC.  I sadly do not see myself golfing on my travels out east any time soon.

[Patrick_Mucci]

JakaB,

Waiting for the world to be at peace will be a long and disappointing wait.

Go West young man, you'll be happier and more fulfilled.

[Joe Hancock]

Why would anyone change a great course?

[Ronald Montesano]

Mike Davis.

[Carl Rogers]

I am befuddled by this thread.  This is like deciding which mass murderer in history should be nominated for sainthood.

[Peter Pallotta]

Mike Davis wants to have his cake and eat it too; Rees Jones bakes from scratch. With Mike, there's not much of the cake left; with Rees, the chocolate can taste like vanilla. I don't know, JK - it's a toss up.

P

[John Kavanaugh]

I'm curious about which hole at Pinehurst Davis will turn into a drivable par 4.  It looks like that the 1st could be played from the red tees on Sunday. Wouldn't manufacturing the possibility of an Arnie like charge be special?

[John Percival]

Why would anyone change a great course?

Joe,
ALL great courses have been changed.

[Mike Hendren]

What's even worse with Davis is that he takes the "garanimals approach" - only using a tight front pin when he moves the tee dramatically forward, and choosing a liberal middle hole location when he moves the tee back.  The result yields very little change in average scores and virtually eliminates the half-par.   What's wrong with a shorter approach to an easy pin and a longer approach to a difficult one? 

Half-Bogey

[Michael Wharton-Palmer]

Leave Davis to set up what many believe Ress has already butchered.
If Merion is anything to go by, The US Open does not exactly endear itself to  tweaking fine architecture.
Did the tweaking create a great Champion, I believe so to at what expense to a good routing and natural flow of a golf course.
I understand that can all be temporary but to those who have played Merion, it looked and played awfully manufactured.

[John Kavanaugh]

Leave Davis to set up what many believe Ress has already butchered.
If Merion is anything to go by, The US Open does not exactly endear itself to  tweaking fine architecture.
Did the tweaking create a great Champion, I believe so to at what expense to a good routing and natural flow of a golf course.
I understand that can all be temporary but to those who have played Merion, it looked and played awfully manufactured.

What may finally wake some people up, doesn't hurt that it will happen at a public course, is when Davis butchers the fine work of C&C at Pinehurst.  I have never seen a course more ready for a tournament every day of the week.

[JESII]

MWP,

I disagree that Merion looked manufactured on TV...that's how the course looks. I think wall to wall fairways would be great but the course had long since moved away from anything approaching width as a feature.

Rees!

Don't love what Davis does in the name of confusion...

[John Kavanaugh]

MWP,

I disagree that Merion looked manufactured on TV...that's how the course looks. I think wall to wall fairways would be great but the course had long since moved away from anything approaching width as a feature.

Rees!

Don't love what Davis does in the name of confusion...

I don't think Merion will ever fully recover its image from what happened there this year.  No matter how difficult Shinnecock may have played it still looked like fun.  Merion just looked contrived and a bore.  You have to work really hard to screw something that beautiful up that badly.

[Michael Wharton-Palmer]

Sorry Jim I cant agree...when I saw players walking backwards 40 yards to manufactured tee boxes and players having to wait for players playing shots on opposing holes, to me that is not what 'my" Merion memories included.
I have no problem with the rough, everytime I played in the Wilson the rough was up and chalenging, that just makes the course a great test.
I remember a course that flowed in such a gentle manner, no contriving straight from green to tee, playing angles natural and esthetic.
I understand the why,for US Open benefit, but that doesnt mean it is attractive.

[George Freeman]

How much of what Mike Davis instigated at Merion cannot be undone?  Fairways can be widened.  Mowing patterns can be returned or improved on.  Rough can be thinned (or feeding it can be stopped).  Way back sets of tees won't be used by members in normal play.

I know there were some structural changes made at Merion (a green or two were tweaked, correct?), but how does that compare to what Rees Jones has done to multiple great old tracks? Assuming you don't like what Rees did to a specific course, how much of it can be easily erased?

Davis all day long IMO. 

[George Freeman]

Sorry Jim I cant agree...when I saw players walking backwards 40 yards to manufactured tee boxes and players having to wait for players playing shots on opposing holes, to me that is not what 'my" Merion memories included.

Michael - I think the alternative was no US Open at Merion...

[Michael Wharton-Palmer]

George,
I agree 100% with that, change or no Open, but to say the course was not contrived in order to stage the Open in my opinion is not correct.
I think it played great for the event, the holes played superbl;y, the challenge was clearly as desored for a US Open but the routing was somewhat bastardised in order to achieve the goal.

[George Freeman]

...but the routing was somewhat bastardised in order to achieve the goal.

Michael - We're just talking new tees, correct?  I wasn't aware of any major routing modifications, i.e. moving holes, rerouting fairways, moving greens, etc.  Honest question.

I wonder how many of the added tees will be removed?  And if they're not removed, I wonder how many will be used in the normal course of member play?

[jeffwarne]

What's even worse with Davis is that he takes the "garanimals approach" - only using a tight front pin when he moves the tee dramatically forward, and choosing a liberal middle hole location when he moves the tee back.  The result yields very little change in average scores and virtually eliminates the half-par.   What's wrong with a shorter approach to an easy pin and a longer approach to a difficult one? 

Half-Bogey

+1
garanimals.....perfect

[Michael Wharton-Palmer]

Yes, just tees, but the obtuse placement of those tees drastically altered the flow of the course.
Not really a critisim for The Open, I acknowledge that was the only way the event could be staged there, but for everyday play, not so much.
One prominent  player I know called it 'get off the green turn left or right and trudge 40 yards to  a new tee"

[Andrew Buck]

Sorry Jim I cant agree...when I saw players walking backwards 40 yards to manufactured tee boxes and players having to wait for players playing shots on opposing holes, to me that is not what 'my" Merion memories included.
I have no problem with the rough, everytime I played in the Wilson the rough was up and chalenging, that just makes the course a great test.
I remember a course that flowed in such a gentle manner, no contriving straight from green to tee, playing angles natural and esthetic.
I understand the why,for US Open benefit, but that doesnt mean it is attractive.

Granted, I had to listen to the final round on the radio, but during the first three rounds I don't recall them showing the groups walking from greens to tees much.  Not saying it didn't happen, I know it did, just saying it didn't show on TV.   

Really the only things that stood out to me were the following

- Didn't see the need to move the fairway closer to the road on 2 for the benefit.  I've played holes like that, but didn't really seem needed.

- A couple of the par 3's almost certainly played too long.  


Other than that, has there been any course in the last 20 years host a major without a few new back tees?  I understand objecting to course hosting the championship, but it's hard not to have some.

[John Kavanaugh]

Sure Merion can be restored to normalcy but she is great partly because of her past and the recent Open is now part of that past.  If this Open is a negative than it follows that the course is not as great as it was before.  There are many examples of works of art losing value because of censorship by outside agencies.  Genitalia covered, language emitted, books burned, tees added, rough heightened, or greens flattened are all the same.  An artists vision changed to fit the perceived needs of society through the eyes of those without the talent to create themselves.  Most often self appointed, anointed committees highly funded through user taxes imposed on their victims.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Sorry Jim I cant agree...when I saw players walking backwards 40 yards to manufactured tee boxes and players having to wait for players playing shots on opposing holes, to me that is not what 'my" Merion memories included.
I have no problem with the rough, everytime I played in the Wilson the rough was up and chalenging, that just makes the course a great test.
I remember a course that flowed in such a gentle manner, no contriving straight from green to tee, playing angles natural and esthetic.
I understand the why,for US Open benefit, but that doesnt mean it is attractive.

Granted, I had to listen to the final round on the radio, but during the first three rounds I don't recall them showing the groups walking from greens to tees much.  Not saying it didn't happen, I know it did, just saying it didn't show on TV.   

Really the only things that stood out to me were the following

- Didn't see the need to move the fairway closer to the road on 2 for the benefit.  I've played holes like that, but didn't really seem needed.
That's how the hole was originally oriented, close to the road.

Ditto # 14 and15

- A couple of the par 3's almost certainly played too long.  


Other than that, has there been any course in the last 20 years host a major without a few new back tees?  I understand objecting to course hosting the championship, but it's hard not to have some.

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