Will watching the British Open, in conjunction with

[Patrick_Mucci]

the current conditions (weather) in the Northeast, act as a catalyst in achieving F&AF ?

Yesterday I ran into a green chairman and we began discussing the weather, course conditions, brownish/yellowish/greenish fairways and greens and courses playing F&F.

Will watching the British Open serve to educate the unknowing ?

Will it result in a movement away from lush green ?

[Mark Bourgeois]

I wish it did but say no, just the opposite.

Most golfers pay attention to floggers before anyone else connected to the two games (golf and flog). They will hear today's tide of flogger bitching and fashion this year's Open into a "there but for the grace of G*d goes the USA" morality tale.

Not only on the golf courses, either. I have a feeling this thread also will be experiencing a movement towards lush green. 

[JMEvensky]

In most Grill Rooms,which will you hear more frequently:

A) Muirfield looks great.I wish our course played that way.

B) Muirfield looks like a muni.That's not golf they're playing.

I'll bet B is the more common.

[Tim Bert]

I suspect the movement will be just as firm and fast as it was in 2011.  Which is to say not very.  I am sure some will embrace it as climate and water availability continues to change but it won't be due to a 4 day telecast of an event that frequently features these conditions.

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,48913.0.html

[Robert Mercer Deruntz]

Pat,
Out of curiosity, is Mountain Ridge moving in a browner, firmer, faster direction.  Probably before you were a member, your club began a Met Open totally waterlogged from overwatering--and then a thunderstorm happened.  The early late half of the field endured brutal bumpy heel indents for the second rround.  I know there has been restoration which appears to be great.  The question--are you able to educate enough people about how such a great course should really play?  

[Josh Tarble]

I also am afraid it won't have any affect but wish it would.  Too often the players are talking about how hard and tricked up the course is. Maybe if they mentioned how fun and interesting it played...

[BHoover]

I wish it would encourage the golfing public to embrace firm & fast and realize that brown is the new green.  But obviously, and most unfortunately, it won't.  If anything, the golfing public is going to side with the pros like Mickelson and Poulter.

[Mike Policano]

Pat,

I am a fan of Ballyneal's tag line, "Get Down With Brown".

However, if my home course turned brown, I would have to leave the area.

Cheers, Mike

[Patrick_Mucci]

Pat,
Out of curiosity, is Mountain Ridge moving in a browner, firmer, faster direction.  

Yes

Probably before you were a member, your club began a Met Open totally waterlogged from overwatering--and then a thunderstorm happened.  The early late half of the field endured brutal bumpy heel indents for the second rround.  I know there has been restoration which appears to be great.  

The question--are you able to educate enough people about how such a great course should really play?

I'd amend the question to read, are you able to educate the "right" people first, and then enough people subsequently.

It's almost like a tree management/removal program.

There was membership resistance in the beginning at almost every club, but, some clubs, with vision, proceeded, and now, almost everyone sings the praises of the tree removal/management program.  It's a process that takes time.

Televised weekly PGA Tour events certainly don't help the cause, although, the Senior US Open was a change of pace.  

[Matthew Rose]

I've already had two people say to me today "god that golf course looks awful.... they really play on that?"

So I wouldn't have high hopes.

[William_G]

like someone said today on TV...you would to have go with "beautifully ugly" for the dry and fast to take hold

[Patrick_Mucci]

I wish it did but say no, just the opposite.

Most golfers pay attention to floggers before anyone else connected to the two games (golf and flog). They will hear today's tide of flogger bitching and fashion this year's Open into a "there but for the grace of G*d goes the USA" morality tale.

Not only on the golf courses, either. I have a feeling this thread also will be experiencing a movement towards lush green. 

Mark, very clever.  Did  you think of that yourself, or, did Ran help you ?

[Patrick_Mucci]

I've already had two people say to me today "god that golf course looks awful.... they really play on that?"

So I wouldn't have high hopes.

Mathew,

I think that's the problem, golfers/viewers place more importance on "the look" rather than the quality of the playing surfaces.

And, "the look" is reinforced every week by the telecasts of the PGA Tour events.

[Mark Bourgeois]

Patrick,

To your point, if a US major were to go yellow, now that might change things. And if that flog course were ANGC it would -- wait, it probably couldn't do it even if it wanted, being a spring tournament. But if it could / would the impact of that would put Oakmont's tree clearing in the shade.

So it would have to be the US Open, since nobody watches the commercial-besotted PGA.

[Anthony Butler]

I've already had two people say to me today "god that golf course looks awful.... they really play on that?"

So I wouldn't have high hopes.

Mathew,

I think that's the problem, golfers/viewers place more importance on "the look" rather than the quality of the playing surfaces.

And, "the look" is reinforced every week by the telecasts of the PGA Tour events.

Pat-Isn't a large part of the issue the grass types?.. With most grasses other than fescue this presentation would kill off most of your course... Secondly with grass types you mostly see in US (even if you could keep them alive) would never provide this type of playing surface... If your putter slips out from underneath while you're leaning on it, you're either on.a links course in the British Isles or a green that will soon be dead.

[Tommy Williamsen]

There is another issue.  Some of us like it on links courses but not our parkland courses.  It is clearly that what is good for the goose isn't good for the gander.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Anthony,

In the late 50's and early 60's it was common for parkland courses to brown out in the summer in the NE.

When drought restrictions were imposed, only tees and greens could be watered.

None of those courses had Fescue fairways.

However, transitioning from lush green to F&F greenish/yellowish/brownish fairways takes time and money, not to mention will.

As I alluded to previously, I haven't watered my lawn in about 20 years.
When it gets hot or when drought restrictions apply, my lawn looks great.
In fact, I've been accused of watering it at night.
Few can believe that my lawn looks so good because it's been deprived of water for 20 years, but, that's the truth.

While I admit that my lawn isn't cut to fairway height, nor does it get significant foot and cart traffic, but, it's healthy.

In order to get healthy playing surfaces, the water deprivation process must be gradual.
But, that won't happen if the will isn't there and it won't happen if the process is criticized and compromised mid-stream.

It takes several years and additional funds to complete the conversion process.

[Brian Freeman]

We've had 25+ inches of rain since the first of May at my home club in NC.

Some years Scotland is wet and it doesn't play like this either.

I don't think it's simply a question of desire. Only a few locations in the world can pull this off...  Unless someone with really deep pockets is willing to put a dome over the course.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Brian,

No one is advocating the duplication of the conditions at Muirfield.

What's being advocated is a trend away from lush green conditions

[Rich Goodale]

Patrick,

To your point, if a US major were to go yellow, now that might change things. And if that flog course were ANGC it would -- wait, it probably couldn't do it even if it wanted, being a spring tournament. But if it could / would the impact of that would put Oakmont's tree clearing in the shade.

So it would have to be the US Open, since nobody watches the commercial-besotted PGA.

Shinnecock was going brown (until they hosed down a green or two in the middle of the round....).

[Patrick_Mucci]

Patrick,

To your point, if a US major were to go yellow, now that might change things. And if that flog course were ANGC it would -- wait, it probably couldn't do it even if it wanted, being a spring tournament. But if it could / would the impact of that would put Oakmont's tree clearing in the shade.

So it would have to be the US Open, since nobody watches the commercial-besotted PGA.

Shinnecock was going brown (until they hosed down a green or two in the middle of the round....).

Rich, as I stated, going brown is a process that takes years in the NE, not hours.

Syringing greens mid-round is a common practice in the NE in the summer

[Jason Topp]

I think attitudes are slowly changing but it varies widely by location.

At my club, members generally agree the course is ideal when playing fiery.  After one recent round I expressed my pleasure at how firm the course was playing to one of the pros.  He responded that he hoped the greens would firm up a bit more.

I was really surprised.  My irons were making dents at best that day.

I do think the idea that firm and fast = lower cost is a myth in the US.  They Syringe a lot.  I am sure it would be less expensive to run the sprinklers a bit more. 

[Dan Herrmann]

The issue to me is that you can't get firm and fast in the mid-Atlantic right now.  Dewpoints are in the upper 70's, greens all over have become "puffy" due to organic material swelling due to the heat and high humidity.  We haven't watered our course for a week (other than quick syringing of greens to cool them down), and I haven't seen a bit of brown.

If anything, I think Merion could have been a better model if it hadn't started raining so hard in early June.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Dan,

I would be beyond surprised if your course, in this heat and humidity, hasn't been watered at night for the last week.

It seems impossible that a course without watering for the last week, would be anything but brownish/yellowish/greenish, or just brown.

In fact, if you're not watering it this past week, why water it at all ?

[Anthony Butler]

Anthony,

In the late 50's and early 60's it was common for parkland courses to brown out in the summer in the NE.

When drought restrictions were imposed, only tees and greens could be watered.

None of those courses had Fescue fairways.

However, transitioning from lush green to F&F greenish/yellowish/brownish fairways takes time and money, not to mention will.

As I alluded to previously, I haven't watered my lawn in about 20 years.
When it gets hot or when drought restrictions apply, my lawn looks great.
In fact, I've been accused of watering it at night.
Few can believe that my lawn looks so good because it's been deprived of water for 20 years, but, that's the truth.

While I admit that my lawn isn't cut to fairway height, nor does it get significant foot and cart traffic, but, it's healthy.

In order to get healthy playing surfaces, the water deprivation process must be gradual.
But, that won't happen if the will isn't there and it won't happen if the process is criticized and compromised mid-stream.

It takes several years and additional funds to complete the conversion process.

My interest is mainly in what the playing conditions are versus how much you can brown the grass... it seems easier to maintain these conditions and provide good playing surfaces at seaside courses due to the types of grass that thrive in these places. I have not been out to Sankaty Head for a couple of summers, but their membership strikes me as the type who would not let a good drought go to waste..  If this weather keeps up that course will be playing fantastic in mid-August.