While We're Young!

[jeffwarne]

Run between shots because 10000 yard courses with knee high rough surrounding the hazards originally designed are here.
Do you think these geniuses ever thought about the fact that courses occupy at least 30% more real estate today, and that regulating equipment (like other sports do) would go a long way to speeding up the game, so that the fields of play (no matter what tees you play) wouldn't have to be so large.
And did I mention them promoting (and flattening in order to do so) greens that stimp at 13.5 (down fromfantasy targets of 15 last year though)

[Tom_Doak]

Like anything else political, nothing happens unless there is a groundswell of public opinion behind it.  Where is the groundswell about slow play?

It is up to us to do something about it.

But what?

[Richard Choi]

It is up to us to do something about it.

But what?

We can start by playing fast...

We all talk a good game, but whenever I go to a GCA event, the pace of play is... not very impressive.

[V. Kmetz]

I agree with Tom D. and follow the agreement down to the most basic thing:

Take charge of it at your own place, or the places you frequent.  Foster the political support to first assume such a position, then develop a plan of action and muster increased executive authority to implement and maintain it...no matter how spartan (throw private members off) or benevolent (coupon incentives for public facilities) or mechanical (time buzzer at every tee) or costly (six rangers on course at all times) or educational (show GC videos on loop at putting green) you can devise them...

It makes for good pundrity and macrocosmic wisdom to identify and excoriate what happens from what we all encounter, but I know this: I bear witness to about 700-800 player rounds per year (not counting groups I can see in front, behind and on the sides of me) and there is no one single remedy or wisdom about what slow play is or what makes it happen.  For every identifiable, single bad actor on Tour or at Down the Street Muni, there's 1000 cunning ways in which the course, the style of play, the facility for walking/carting and the interdependence of just ONE group causing an eventual jam on a course with more than 70 players on it to make me say I know for sure what causes a round slower than you would like.

If its a problem for you where you play, take care of it with the best resources you can; if you can't, then it probably means that there is no outcry or significant annoyance by what you perceive as a problem.

Last word for now: 
Only one universal I have ever taken from all the thousands of rounds of Golf I have seen...on those rare occasions where a group is actually playing through another (a hole is open, the ranger says so, policy, etc, etc) is is poison for that group being passed to stop and wait...ONE MUST ACTUALLY PLAY THROUGH...that means the slow group continues hitting and only pauses for each shot of the group playing up or through them until that group actually reaches their position and play must necessarily wait.

cheers

vk

[Jud_T]

Somebody please tell me just one thing the USGA has gotten right. 

The anchoring ban, for starters.    I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt for the moment.  Let's see if there's more to it than a couple of cute ads.  If they're really serious they'll scrap the current handicapping system in favor of a GB&I model.

[Mike Sweeney]

Somebody please tell me just one thing the USGA has gotten right.  They remind me of current Washington:  Los of talk, little real action and the few actions they undertake are unmitigated disasters. 

They are awesome at logistics:

• Shinnecock
• Merion
• Winged Foot
• Pebble Beach

I have been to 4 USGA events and they kill it in terms of logistics. Maybe better than Disneyworld.

The USGA made a decent profit by screwing up their 57th Street "Clubhouse" in NYC. They had good market timing.

The USGA has the balls to bring a USGA back to Merion.

The USGA has a very good, not great, museum in North Jersey, which makes Pat Mucci happy.

The USGA stayed out of the golf course ownership and management business.

[Mike Sweeney]

Somebody please tell me just one thing the USGA has gotten right. 

Shivas,

Did I miss something?

[Mac Plumart]

It is up to us to do something about it.

But what?

We can start by playing fast...

We all talk a good game, but whenever I go to a GCA event, the pace of play is... not very impressive.

 

[Bill Brightly]

Let me be the lone dreamer here and hope that this is a great first step. Start with a few funny commercials, then follow that up with strict enforcement of the existing rules at all USGA events.

I happen to think that the pros would adapt very quickly to strict rule enforcement. It would probably help many... they would have to simplify their pre-shot routines and just step in and hit shots that they are completely capable of hitting.

And the PGA should do the same thing at their events. I'll bet the majority of the touring pros would prefer a faster pace, so why would they balk at rule enforcement that only penalizes the turtles?

It is in the long term interest of both the USGA and the PGA to lead the way by example. When the state of the game improves, they benefit.

Wouldn't it be awesome if there was a rash of guys being put on the clock this weekend and a multitude of penalties assessed?

[Garland Bayley]

Like anything else political, nothing happens unless there is a groundswell of public opinion behind it.  Where is the groundswell about slow play?

It is up to us to do something about it.

But what?

post in every club house.




YOU'RE NOT GOOD ENOUGH TO PLAY SLOW!

[Garland Bayley]

It is up to us to do something about it.

But what?

We can start by playing fast...

We all talk a good game, but whenever I go to a GCA event, the pace of play is... not very impressive.

We about had it at KP this year except one round that went over 4 hours. We had the guy shooting 120 really pissed at the guy shooting 85 and taking all day doing it. After all, shooting 85 he wasn't good enough to play slow.

[Ryan McLaughlin]

I think it is impossible to compare times at a private facility to a muni or even high end public.  Part of it is educating the golfers which may or may not give a crap.  The other side is profit motive.  If my course is booked full at 8 minute intervals and there is little motivation from the staff to do anything about it.  They are making money and have a steady stream of golfers filling the tee sheet.  Their priorities and the USGA/serious golfers are not aligned at all.

[Jud_T]

Ryan,

If the research shows that 12 minute intervals actually allows more players to get around the course in less time and have a better experience they better care or the competition down the street might cause their tee sheet to be less busy when folks realize they are providing a better experience and therefore better value down the road.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Somebody please tell me just one thing the USGA has gotten right. 


Other than preserving and protecting the game for over a century ?

Rules
Conducting a wide variety of Championships
Restricting non-conforming I&B
Handicapping
Course ratings

Just to name a few. http://

[BigEdSC]

Played in the Flordia State Am qualifier last week.  Was in the first group off at 8am.  Playing in 3's, we finished the front nine at 9:45, and caught up to the last group going off at 9:40 on the back (split tee).  We really didn't fly through the front, just played in a good pace.  We finished at 11:45.  The thing that I wish the USGA would use, that the FSGA uses, is their pace of play.  They leave a note on each tee reminding the group about their pace of play, and they will get hit with a stroke penalty if they do not meet the pace.  And they police the pace, and are not afraid about hitting you with the penalty.

Can you imagine if they used it on the PGA Tour?  
Jim Nantz:  "Tiger's on a hot streak, but it seems like he and his group have been playing pretty slow.  Nick, do you think that he'll get penalized?
Nick Faldo:  Jim, he's been taking 44 seconds to hit the ball.  Their group has fifteen minutes from the group ahead of them to finish out the hole, and it's already been 14 minutes.  They need to step it up, or they'll all get a stroke penalty.
Jim Nantz:  Tiger's last to putt, and he only has 20 seconds to finish and put the flag in the hole.  He steps up, backs off, and the horn goes off.  Tiger and his group are going to get hit with a stroke penalty!  Nick, that has to hurt.
Nick Faldo:  Jim, your right.  But they know the rules, that I might not agree with it, the rules are the rules.

It's so damn simple, it's hard to believe that no one else uses it.  I've watched the LPGA play, and not to pick on them, but they are excruciatingly slow.

[V. Kmetz]

Somebody please tell me just one thing the USGA has gotten right. 


Other than preserving and protecting the game for over a century ?

Rules
Conducting a wide variety of Championships
Restricting non-conforming I&B
Handicapping
Course ratings

Just to name a few. http://

+1 for PM's post

cheers

vk

[Carson Pilcher]

With all of the attention about pace of play, it has really made me notice how incredibly SLOW the players are playing this tournament.

[BHoover]

With all of the attention about pace of play, it has really made me notice how incredibly SLOW the players are playing this tournament.

How soon before someone in the gallery yells "while we're young!" to one of the pros?

[Greg Taylor]

Props to the USGA for taking the quote from Caddyshack...

Someone has a sense of humour!

[BHoover]

With all of the attention about pace of play, it has really made me notice how incredibly SLOW the players are playing this tournament.

How soon before someone in the gallery yells "while we're young!" to one of the pros?

Even better would be the pro, who after being told to pick up the pace with a "while we're young!", responds in his best Shooter McGavin, "damn you people, go back to your shanties!"

[Bill Brightly]

The commercials are great. They would have been even better if the USGA coupled them with a very public announcement that slow play would not be tolerated at the US Open, followed by warnings, players on the clock (with TV announcers telling the viewers) and penalties if warranted.  THAT would have made a statement...

[Garland Bayley]

Took the pledge - among the first 199 to do so.

The pledge is here: http://www.usga.org/MicroSite.aspx?id=21474856307

I can't see how anyone would want to diminish golf by pledging to play it forward. 

[Ryan McLaughlin]

Ryan,

If the research shows that 12 minute intervals actually allows more players to get around the course in less time and have a better experience they better care or the competition down the street might cause their tee sheet to be less busy when folks realize they are providing a better experience and therefore better value down the road.

I totally agree.  But try convincing the corporate entity/municipality and GM that makes the call on the tee time policy that losing 4 minutes a pop which equates to 2 lost times that they could have squeezed in.  The user experience is secondary to profit.  I have worked as a pro in both scenarios.  I've squeezed an extra tee time in every hour to clear the standby list at a muni and alternatively placed a letter in a members locker for a 3:55 time (5 minutes over pace) at a exclusive private club.  I dont have an answer aside from leaving the public side to go private.  That is not an option for everyone and that's unfortunate.  I feel practice swings (tee, approach and putts) and pre shot prep are the issue.  It needs to be taught early.  I hear AJGA is putting their foot down and SCGA here is putting a huge focus on pace of play. 

[Patrick_Mucci]

Pat's post is the standard platitude the USGA proffers.

But it's not true.  The game of golf has been bastardized more in the past century under USGA control than under its prior 5 centuries COMBINED!  And the extent of bastardization has been increasing geometrically in the past 50 years or so. 

How would you know ?

Sure, they conduct a bunch of tournaments.  That's wonderful - if your title is Event Planner Extraordinare.

The USGA conducts championships besides the Open and they're adding more.
They do a terrific job in the conduct of those events, from the National down to the local level.

And to tout the USGA's achievement in restricting I&B is pure FARCE of the highest order!  They have been an abyssmal failure in restricting I&B.  A complete, utter disaster.  And Pat is touting that as something they've gotten right?  LOL!

The problem is that your Ox has been gored.
Prior to the Ping lawsuit, their record was exemplary.
Did they let the I&B get away from them in recent years ?  I think so.
But, look at the outcry they received from golfers like you when they stepped up and banned churning butter.
One can't look at the work of an organization from a selective, isolated perspective , which is what your view seems to be.

Handicapping?  Wow.  A high school kid who has taken statistics could come up with GHIN.

But, they didn't, and neither did you, the USGA did.

And course ratings are done by the LOCAL golf associations - and Pat knows it. 

The concept, methodolgy and guidelines were created by the USGA for local associations to implement, and you know that.

About the only thing the USGA has done a decent job with is the rules, and even with that, they've BUTCHERED any claim to protecting the integrity of the game with the cheater line, restricting biomechanics, the ridiculously complicated hazard rules, and - frankly - the fact that most people DON'T PLAY BY USGA RULES because they're too damn complicated.

So they ban "anchoring" and you scream bloody murder, while at the same time ranting and raving to have your "cheater line" banned.
Seems as though you only want rules put in place that you agree with.

If anything, the USGA has alienated a greater percentage of their constituents from playing under their any other governing body in any other sport I can thing of! 

Golf is closer to being played today, as it was 100 years ago, versus any other major sport.

I don't see a lot of baseball leagues that allow 4 strikes. 

No, they just move the fences in.
Black out the stands behind the pitcher
Juice the ball
Change the strike zone daily.

I don't see a lot of basketball leagues that allow traveling. 

You must be kidding.
Those guys take 3, 4 and 5 steps going to the basket.
Palming/carrying is permited and anchoring the pivot foot has been forgotten about.
They created a three point line and widened the lane.

I don't see a lot of football leagues that permit facemasking. 

They added facemasks,
move the goal posts off the field of play,
Moved the hash marks in and changed more rules than you can remember

In most other sports, the participants actually PLAY BY the rules. 

In most other sports the players cheat at every opportunity.
Golfers are the rare breed that call penalties on themselves and abide by the rules.

But, you have already stated that you won't abide by the rules, proving that you're being a hypocrit and only playing by the rules that you like.


Golf is the clear leader in the clubhouse in terms of participants that don't! 

Whatever you ingested or drank, I suggest you refrain from future indulgence.
You're so far off base in this area that a little league catcher would throw you out.

So pardon me for questioning the USGA's stewardship of the Rules as well.

You're pardoned.

In sum, I can't think of much of anything they've done right. 
Wait.  I just thought of one.  Turfgrass research.  They're awesome at that.
Too bad their USGA greens aren't much better than pushups and cost $60K a pop. 

As an attorney, I'm shocked that you don't know one of the major reasons that the USGA developed USGA greens.

But, I'll leave you with this tidbit.

On the 8th hole today, did Tiger make a stroke or did he push his ball into the hole ?

[Jason Thurman]

We all talk a good game, but whenever I go to a GCA event, the pace of play is... not very impressive.

A buddy and I have a running joke that a GCAer claiming he played a round in under 3 hours is this site's equivalent of a bogey golfer claiming he hit a 300 yard drive. I don't think I've ever broken 4 hours in a GCA event, with the possible exception of a very fast skins game in a sixsome last fall.