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Mac Plumart

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Manicuring vs. Maintenance
« on: May 31, 2013, 08:00:31 PM »
I hear people talk about how great specific golf course's maintenance is, but I wonder if they mean how well it is manicured.

To me, a well maintained course embodies all the elements required to make the playing of golf enjoyable.  Maybe the is greens that roll well, greens that are firm enough, fairways that are appropriately fast and firm, etc.

However, I think that stuff isn't as noticeable to most people as a highly manicured golf course.  Finely raked bunkers.  All grass areas mowed perfectly...rough, fairways, and fringe.  No, to little, brown grass.  Over-seeded rye grass fairways vs. dormant grasses.  Etc.


I don't think highly manicured golf courses are important to the game of golf, but I do believe well maintained ones are.

You?
Sportsman/Adventure loving golfer.

BHoover

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Manicuring vs. Maintenance
« Reply #1 on: May 31, 2013, 08:06:35 PM »
Mac, I couldn't agree more. Unfortunately, I think we (and i mean those on GCA) are in the minority.

Joel_Stewart

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Manicuring vs. Maintenance
« Reply #2 on: June 01, 2013, 12:07:02 PM »
Mac, I like your thinking.  It's not really a fine line, once you cross over to the highly manicured.

Can you list many top 100 courses that have not crossed over to the highly manicured?   Seminole, Maidstone, Newport CC come to mind.  Maybe the new Pinehurst, LACC and NGLA.

Augusta, Muirfield Village are obviously over the top in being manicured.   Pine Valley and Pebble Beach are examples of courses that should not but are heading in that direction.

Mark Saltzman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Manicuring vs. Maintenance
« Reply #3 on: June 01, 2013, 12:12:04 PM »

Can you list many top 100 courses that have not crossed over to the highly manicured?   Seminole, Maidstone, Newport CC come to mind.  Maybe the new Pinehurst, LACC and NGLA.

Somerset Hills.  It seems they have a greater focus on maintenance meld than manicuring. 

Mac Plumart

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Manicuring vs. Maintenance
« Reply #4 on: June 01, 2013, 12:23:32 PM »
From what I've seen, Seminole may be the best example of a great and well maintained course that isn't overly manicured.

However, I have seen many overly manicured courses that are not properly maintained.


Oh yeah...it seemed like the Scottish courses I've played understood proper maintenance.
Sportsman/Adventure loving golfer.

Chris_Hufnagel

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Manicuring vs. Maintenance
« Reply #5 on: June 01, 2013, 12:51:38 PM »
Mac, I like your definitions of maintained vs. manicured...

As far as well-maintained courses go, I would throw out Kingsley as one of the best I have seen.  The manner in which Dan Lucas and his team maintain the course in respect to how Mike DeVries designed the course - seems just about perfect to me.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2013, 10:55:43 PM by Chris Hufnagel »

Mark Bourgeois

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Manicuring vs. Maintenance
« Reply #6 on: June 01, 2013, 01:03:21 PM »
Mac,

This is a great distinction. A few weeks ago there was an interesting discussion about TPC Sawgrass's denaturing that included a quote from Pete Dye along the lines of what you're getting at.

But perhaps the most striking examples of this trend comes from old photographs. How many have we strained to recognize, being so different, so much rawer, than their current versions?

I think it must be human nature to want to take the raw and cook it. Maybe it's a cultural thing akin to Claude Levy-Strauss's culinary triangle, wherein he describes different methods of cooking as signposts for the culture of a society. They sort of reveal truths. If that's the case, then what does it say about our relationship to nature, or the relationship of golfers to nature? Yet perhaps there is hope. It seems we've made greater strides as humans than as golfers. Once upon a time certain animals were seen as evil or as menaces we needed to eradicate. How far we have come when the family of a man killed by a White Pointer (Great White) can plead for the animal to be left alone, and for society to agree.

And there are signs of progress even among golfers. Recently I was reading an Australian golf discussion board wherein the posters all agreed on the need to leave poisonous snakes alone, not simply for safety reasons but because they are a protected species. And while there was some talk of avoiding fines, there was a general sense of "live and let live."

But getting back to Levy-Strauss, maybe the most surprising thing of all to me, upon reflection, was that some part of me fundamentally thought killing those snakes the right thing to do, and the Australians' perspective took me by surprise. I guess I'll take my taipan roasted.  :-[
Charlotte. Daniel. Olivia. Josephine. Ana. Dylan. Madeleine. Catherine. Chase. Jesse. James. Grace. Emilie. Jack. Noah. Caroline. Jessica. Benjamin. Avielle. Allison.

Dan Herrmann

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Manicuring vs. Maintenance
« Reply #7 on: June 01, 2013, 02:34:17 PM »
Mac - check out http://vimeo.com/3177525

In it, Bruce Cadenelli talks about the concept of "genteel neglect", and it works great at our place.  Why spend time and money on stuff that doesn't affect the game or the golfer's experience.   

Don_Mahaffey

Re: Manicuring vs. Maintenance
« Reply #8 on: June 01, 2013, 02:42:23 PM »
I was interviewed about this not too long ago and I had a simple answer.

You either want people (golfers) to know you were there or not. Where the game matters only, the greenkeeper strives not to leave his mark. Where the one up man ship and "my course is better maintained then your course" attitude matters, the greenkeeper does all he can to make sure you know he was there.

I absolutely love greenkeepers who live in the background.

Anyone can trim a bunker with scissors. Only the best can maintain an edge and make it look like they were never there.

Paul Gray

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Manicuring vs. Maintenance
« Reply #9 on: June 01, 2013, 02:52:11 PM »
Mac,

An excellent distinction.

I'm pleased to say that the tide has, IMHO, just begun to turn here in Britain. A better analogy might be turning an oil tanker. It's a gradual process and won't happen in a matter of minutes. Anyway, despite the overwhelming trend amongst The Average Joe to confuse cleanliness with Godliness, the overly manicured UK courses seem to on a downward spiral. You only have to see their endless green fee offers and their gradual decline in any serious rankings (and say what you like about rankings, I just happen to think they might have some educational value in this instance) to see that they are having trouble.

I don't want to see anyone go out of business but it's nice to see market forces just beginning to favour the sorts of clubs which you, I and most GCAers would regard as properly cared for.
In the places where golf cuts through pretension and elitism, it thrives and will continue to thrive because the simple virtues of the game and its attendant culture are allowed to be most apparent. - Tim Gavrich

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re: Manicuring vs. Maintenance
« Reply #10 on: June 01, 2013, 06:15:53 PM »
I was interviewed about this not too long ago and I had a simple answer.

You either want people (golfers) to know you were there or not. Where the game matters only, the greenkeeper strives not to leave his mark. Where the one up man ship and "my course is better maintained then your course" attitude matters, the greenkeeper does all he can to make sure you know he was there.

I absolutely love greenkeepers who live in the background.

Anyone can trim a bunker with scissors. Only the best can maintain an edge and make it look like they were never there.

Spot on, Don.  That's why I cringe when I see striped mowing patterns, and why we try to show off no mowing lines at all.  [And that also explains my aversion to square tees.]

It's the same with architecture.  There are a lot of modern courses where the "architecture" is oh so obvious, and on some of those the architect's signature or even his picture is on the scorecard.  I've been trying to go the opposite direction from that since I was 25.  Minimalism isn't doing nothing at all -- we build stuff to make the golf course better -- but we try to do it without anyone noticing.

The trend I do NOT understand is all the people who seem to be trying to combine the two.  They are rebuilding their bunkers to have ragged edges, but trying to maintain them perfectly at the same time, and striping the fairways in front of them.  What is the point of a natural-looking bunker edge if you make it so obvious that it isn't natural?  [I think I know the answer to this, but I won't say it.]
« Last Edit: June 01, 2013, 06:27:06 PM by Tom_Doak »

Mac Plumart

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Manicuring vs. Maintenance
« Reply #11 on: June 01, 2013, 09:29:48 PM »
What is the point of a natural-looking bunker edge if you make it so obvious that it isn't natural?

I'm sure you are thinking along different lines than this, Tom, but doesn't it make it more difficult to administer the rules of the game when bunker and\or hazards lines become blurred?
Sportsman/Adventure loving golfer.

Dan Herrmann

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Manicuring vs. Maintenance
« Reply #12 on: June 01, 2013, 10:27:52 PM »
Mac - that's a wonderful questions - the impact of the Rules of Golf on an architect...  But that's another thread for another day :)

Bryan Icenhower

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Manicuring vs. Maintenance
« Reply #13 on: June 01, 2013, 10:34:46 PM »
Great topic Mac

This addresses it the best in my opinion  ...
Anyone can trim a bunker with scissors. Only the best can maintain an edge and make it look like they were never there.


Scott Warren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Manicuring vs. Maintenance
« Reply #14 on: June 02, 2013, 06:29:54 AM »
Mac,

Another reason why you need to visit the Melbourne Sandbelt - Kingston Heath is the working definition of what you talk about in this thread.

Every aspect of the course - tees, greens, fairways, rough, native vegetation, bunkers - is presented in a perfect state for the location, climate, turf and soil. There's no frilly bits or unnecessary fluff, just a golf course perfectly attuned to what's ideal for playing golf.

Every club board should go and see it.

Mike_Young

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Manicuring vs. Maintenance
« Reply #15 on: June 02, 2013, 09:26:28 AM »


The trend I do NOT understand is all the people who seem to be trying to combine the two.  They are rebuilding their bunkers to have ragged edges, but trying to maintain them perfectly at the same time, and striping the fairways in front of them.  What is the point of a natural-looking bunker edge if you make it so obvious that it isn't natural?  [I think I know the answer to this, but I won't say it.]


Let's do say:
It could be:
1.  The bunker is not natural to the particular region in the first place and it is lined with gravel and fabric and then the edge is a stationary,non-moveable edge that requires special maintenance to be sure no one cuts the fabric ;D
2.  It could be a green chair who saw a ragged edge on a golf trip and decided to "bring it home"
3.  It could be a course trying to be sure it stays ahead of it's neighbor course...
or it could be "industry ingrained"....
And I don't think I will say the other either ;D ;D ;D
"just standing on a corner in Winslow Arizona"

Mac Plumart

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Manicuring vs. Maintenance
« Reply #16 on: June 02, 2013, 04:13:24 PM »
Sure wish Tom and Mike would let us in on their secret.
Sportsman/Adventure loving golfer.

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