[Doug Ralston]

I was thinking about the more recent greats we have seen.

Seems like both quality of landform and cost of property is moving quality courses outward. Golf really belonged to urbana, it seems to me, till about the 1950's, yes? But especially starting in the 90's, quality courses began appearing in rural America [of other countries I am not certain] in abundance. I imagine that is a major reason for economic failure of many as the economy tanked?

Am I just stating the obvious? Which truly great recent courses are in urban areas?

Doug

[David_Tepper]

Bayonne GC, New Jersey.

[PCCraig]

Arlington just northwest of Chicago is a a great track.

[Garland Bayley]

Don't know the area, but Old Sandwich may qualify.
Certainly Chambers Bay does.

[Mark Smolens]

Not sure how you can call Arlington Park a "recently" designed track there Mr. Craig  

[Garland Bayley]

The Patriot is just outside Tulsa

[Jeff_Mingay]

I'm lucky to be working on one that I hope will be pretty good, Doug. We're completely redoing the Derrick Club's course. It's as close as it gets to a new course on an existing urban property, right in the heart of Edmonton, Alberta, which is now a city of well over 1 million people. New course opens in its entirety in spring 2015.

[Howard Riefs]

Kinloch
Old Memorial
Boston Golf Club
Dallas National
Colorado Golf Club

[PCCraig]

Not sure how you can call Arlington Park a "recently" designed track there Mr. Craig  

By being completely re-built post fire in the late 80's that would firmly place Arlington as a modern track, wouldn't it?

[SL_Solow]

I think the basic premise of this thread is incorrect.  Many of the "urban" courses which we love started out as country clubs that were indeed out in the country when they were built.  Courses built in the early 1900s that were 40 miles from the center of a large city were a day trip which is why many clubs maintained dormitories and cottages.  As cities grew outward, the clubs on the outskirts became part of the inner city and those in the country were swallowed by suburbs.  The model in the States was not like that of Scotland where many of the great courses occupy public land in or near the center of town.  Land has always been more plentiful and cheaper away from developed areas.

[Rich Goodale]

Reverse snaJ?

[Doug Ralston]

I think the basic premise of this thread is incorrect.  Many of the "urban" courses which we love started out as country clubs that were indeed out in the country when they were built.  Courses built in the early 1900s that were 40 miles from the center of a large city were a day trip which is why many clubs maintained dormitories and cottages.  As cities grew outward, the clubs on the outskirts became part of the inner city and those in the country were swallowed by suburbs.  The model in the States was not like that of Scotland where many of the great courses occupy public land in or near the center of town.  Land has always been more plentiful and cheaper away from developed areas.

Yes, I can see the point. My thought was that, in times of bad economy, the course's accessibility might be a large factor. It seemed to me of the better quality courses going under, most were built more recently and tended to be more remote. Whereas among lesser courses going under, it seemed the urban ones, like a large number in Cleveland, were most at risk. Different clientele, of course.

Doug

[Matthew Petersen]

Kinloch
Old Memorial
Boston Golf Club
Dallas National
Colorado Golf Club

I'm not familiar with the locations of all of those, but Colorado Golf Club is nowhere near the "urban" part of Denver.

But to the larger point, I think SL makes a good point. Denver Country Club is not in downtown but it is smack in the affluent Cherry Creek neighborhood, and certainly an urban part of the city. But my grandmother used to recall for me that when they would go into the city, that the country club was considerably out of town, far enough that her father remarked he doubted the club would survive since it would be hard to get people to go out that far. Hard to imagine now.

[Matthew Petersen]

I think the basic premise of this thread is incorrect.  Many of the "urban" courses which we love started out as country clubs that were indeed out in the country when they were built.  Courses built in the early 1900s that were 40 miles from the center of a large city were a day trip which is why many clubs maintained dormitories and cottages.  As cities grew outward, the clubs on the outskirts became part of the inner city and those in the country were swallowed by suburbs.  The model in the States was not like that of Scotland where many of the great courses occupy public land in or near the center of town.  Land has always been more plentiful and cheaper away from developed areas.

Yes, I can see the point. My thought was that, in times of bad economy, the course's accessibility might be a large factor. It seemed to me of the better quality courses going under, most were built more recently and tended to be more remote. Whereas among lesser courses going under, it seemed the urban ones, like a large number in Cleveland, were most at risk. Different clientele, of course.

Doug

I am not sure the economy is discriminating on the location/age of the courses so much. It's just that more and more in recent times, new courses have tended to be built away from urban areas. This is partly because the land is much harder to come by and partly because travel to even very remote places is much more feasible now than it was until recently.

But the economy has been hard on any course or club that is not strong, regardless of location, pedigree, or age.

[J_ Crisham]

Chicago Highlands opened about 5 yrs ago in the midst of the  western Chicago suburbs- pretty good track with nice greens. Polarizing as it is unlike anything else in Chicago.

[Wayne Wiggins, Jr.]

Seems most of these would be reclamation projects a la Bayonne.  Another would be Chambers Bay.  While we may never know of their "greatness" here are a couple courses that were/are on the drawing board:

San Francisco/Oakland - Kyle Phillips had one planned on the grounds of the Alameda Naval Aiir Station (http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,18161.0.html)

Omaha - A course designed by Tom Doak has been discssed on land just south of the airport (http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,45186.0.html).  Not sure of the status at this point.

Dallas - Coore & Crenshaw design just south of downtown Dallas (http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,54210.0.html)

[Bruce Katona]

Granite Links in Quincy & Milton, Mass is a pretty unique place - partially built around the old quarry sites and partially on an old land fill. The dirt for the site came from the "Big Dig".

27 holes with some nice views of the Boston skyline.

[Mike Nuzzo]

Am I alone in wishing Doug didn't refer to a golf course as a track?
Cheers

[Tim_Weiman]

Mike,

You are not alone. I can't stand it. Can you imagine St Andrews or Cypress Point or Pine Valley being a "track"?

Where that language came from I don't know, but it is awful.

[PCCraig]

Am I alone in wishing Doug didn't refer to a golf course as a track?
Cheers

Oh.....he was talking about golf courses?!?!

[Brad Tufts]

Granite Links in Quincy & Milton, Mass is a pretty unique place - partially built around the old quarry sites and partially on an old land fill. The dirt for the site came from the "Big Dig".

27 holes with some nice views of the Boston skyline.

Strange course(s), but I think this qualifies save for the "great" part of the thread title...only 8 miles from downtown.  Opened in 2002 or so.

Boston Golf Club is in a suburb about 12 miles south of Boston that is covered in woods....plenty of open space so not quite urban.  Parts of Hingham have houses ever few feet, parts are large open tracts of woods.  No houses visible from BGC.

Old Sandwich is about 30-35 miles south of Boston, and Plymouth being the largest town in Mass. by area, there is a ton of open space.  OS is in the midst of one of these, so definitely not urban.  

[Ronald Montesano]

track as a euphemism is fine by me...he's not referencing anything scatallogical, gynecological or pathological, so what is the ish?

[mike_beene]

"Track" is what guys with cigars,leather golf bags and fancy shoes call the course the ride in a golf cart. No offense intended.

[Mike Hendren]

It is highly unlikely that the highest and best use for a non-contaminated 100+ acres parcel of truly urban land is for development of a golf course.   Most courses listed are in reality suburban with the only true urban sites involving reclamation of contaminated sites that are unsuitable for vertical construction. 

As others have pointed out, urban location and golf course development might be mutually exclusive.

Bogey

[Garland Bayley]

It is highly unlikely that the highest and best use for a non-contaminated 100+ acres parcel of truly urban land is for development of a golf course.   Most courses listed are in reality suburban with the only true urban sites involving reclamation of contaminated sites that are unsuitable for vertical construction. 

As others have pointed out, urban location and golf course development might be mutually exclusive.

Bogey

Chambers Bay was not a contaminated site that could easily have been built out with multimillion dollar homes instead of being put to use for the public at large.

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