Long Cove Club (Pete Dye) - A Photo Tour!!! - Hole 18 Posted

[Mark Saltzman]

When I write about Pete Dye's courses, especially those I think are his best, I find that I write the same thing over and over -- Pete Dye has a phenomenal appreciation for both the importance of temptation/doubt in the golfer's mind, and his use of angles.  The same holds true at LCC.  

I was told that LCC was built shortly after TPC Sawgrass had been negatively received.  As such, Pete shied away from designing what golfers would call 'unfair' and instead focused on width, angles and interest around the green.  And boy was he successful.  Is this Dye's greatest set of greens?  They are remarkably varied -- size, shape, tilt, contour -- no two greens are alike and all are interesting.  I hope this is made clear throughout the photo tour.

As the golfer nears Hilton Head Island, his GPS lets him know he is entering golf country!




At the 1st, Dye tempts the golfer to play near the bunker/hazard running the right side of the hole, but it is approaches from the left that have the preferred angle.  An excellent reverse-dogleg.




The 1st green, as seen from behind, is massive.  Two ridges create bowls at the front and right portions of the green.




At the 2nd, a 175 yard par-3, Dye cleverly varies the angle from different sets of tees.  The back tees play near 200 yards and well to the left, demanding a longer forced-carry over the hazard.




As seen from behind, the green is much larger than it appears from the tee, but its front-right to back-left tilt makes it a very elusive target.  Tee shots that bailout away from the water leave a very difficult recovery.




The third is a mid-length par-5 that twice crosses an angled water-hazard before leaving this seemingly innocuous approach:




But, the green lays at a sharp angle, tilts severely from back-left to front-right, and is guarded by swales both short...




And long!

[Anthony_Nysse]

Excited for this tour!

[Greg Tallman]

Mark, If I may I would dedicate this thread to my friend Jim Ferguson, multiple times club champion at Long Cove, who passed away quite unexpectedly Saturday afternoon. After playing at a club off the island he did not make it out of the club grounds before suffering a massive and fatal heart attack. RIP Jim. 

[Jason Topp]

Mark, If I may I would dedicate this thread to my friend Jim Ferguson, multiple times club champion at Long Cove, who passed away quite unexpectedly Saturday afternoon. After playing at a club off the island he did not make it out of the club grounds before suffering a massive and fatal heart attack. RIP Jim. 

RIP

[jeffwarne]

Excited for this tour!

+1
Hole #2 was the scene of my first hole-in-one.
a 2 iron ! from the 196 yard tee (the tee in the bottom right in the picture taken from behind green in front of white house)  into the wind to a right pin, the most difficult pin to access.
followed by a PAF on #3

[Mark Saltzman]

A handful of holes at LCC are very narrow and constrained by trees.  Moreso at the 11th than the 4th, trees create strategy.




The green at the 4th is extremely well-done, tying in exceptionally with the surrounding grade and using subtle mounding at the front and perimeter of the green to maximum effect.




The 5th is a fascinating juxtaposition to the 4th; while the 4th is subtle, the 5th is bold and overt.  From the tee the golfer is given ample room to play right, away from the water, on this 300 yard par-4.




But playing away from the water leaves a completely blind approach over an alps-like mound:




While playing to the extreme left side of the fairway leaves an unobscured view of the green:




On the approach there is no bailout as water guards left and bunkers deeper than a golfer lurk to the right.  Even the tilt of the green, hard toward the water, adds difficulty.




The mid-length par-5 6th bends to the right around waste bunkers.  As the golfer nears the green, the fairway narrows, but fortunately containment contouring adds effective width.  Playing from the fairway on the third is a must as this blind, shelf green is intimidating.




As seen from behind, the green tilts away from the line of play:

[Greg Tallman]

Love the green complexes at 3 and 4.

Funny, the photos of 5 make me think I should like it but such has never been the case.

[Matt Kardash]

The 5th hole is all kinds of cool. Dye has built many versions of the short blind par 4. Is this the best one?

[jeffwarne]

The 5th hole is all kinds of cool. Dye has built many versions of the short blind par 4. Is this the best one?

a very cool hole

Looking at the pictures makes me realize and remember how unique the greens are there (something I surely took for granted in the three years I worked there)

 every one is different-by a lot

[Thomas Dai]

Mark,

Thanks for posting.

The 5th is certainly an eye catching hole, although with red hazard stakes all down the left it would seem worthwhile to take a gamble off the tee and hope to hit a big high right-to-left shot because even if you do hit into the water you'll be able drop out near the waters edge and then hit your next shot up the length of the green rather than otherwise playing safe and having to come in blind over the dead mammoth mound and the various bunkers.

Looking forward to the rest of the photo tour.

All the best

[jeffwarne]

When Long Cove opened it had Centipede roughs which provided contrast and photographed spectacularly, and was definitely part of the wow factor.  (Long Cove was as high as 19th in the country in the Top 100 lists in the 80's)
Alas, it did not stand up to cart (cartpaths only became the solution) or foot traffic and was generally in poor condition, particularly around the greens.
It was removed in the early 90's for the most part and replaced with bermuda.

[Anthony_Nysse]

When Long Cove opened it had Centipede roughs which provided contrast and photographed spectacularly, and was definitely part of the wow factor.  (Long Cove was as high as 19th in the country in the Top 100 lists in the 80's)
Alas, it did not stand up to cart (cartpaths only became the solution) or foot traffic and was generally in poor condition, particularly around the greens.
It was removed in the early 90's for the most part and replaced with bermuda.

They have it on Petes course at Colleton River an after 14 years, it's hanging in there, BUT they have 1/5 of the golf LCC has. Old Marsh used to have a bunch on their hard to maintain hills, too.

[Greg Tallman]

Mark,

Thanks for posting.

The 5th is certainly an eye catching hole, although with red hazard stakes all down the left it would seem worthwhile to take a gamble off the tee and hope to hit a big high right-to-left shot because even if you do hit into the water you'll be able drop out near the waters edge and then hit your next shot up the length of the green rather than otherwise playing safe and having to come in blind over the dead mammoth mound and the various bunkers.

Looking forward to the rest of the photo tour.

All the best

My problem with the 5th was that I never thought the risk/reward proposition was worth it. The area that you would be trying to hit it to is perhaps a couple thousand square feet, if not less. It was simply not a true option in my mind.

The blind nature of teh shot coupled with the water left and behind just seems to be "trying too hard" to do SOMETHING here. Too many concepts merged into a jumbled mess In my honest opinion.

Hmmmm, maybe it is posts like this that cause some to post under a "screen name" 

[Mark Saltzman]

Greg, good point, I'm with you there.

Maybe if they lop off a part of the hill on the left side? As it sits, it is VERY hard to have ANY view of the green. That is , unless you 'beginners luck' it like me and hook a hybrid to 5 ft from the left waters edge.

[Greg Tallman]

Greg, good point, I'm with you there.

Maybe if they lop off a part of the hill on the left side? As it sits, it is VERY hard to have ANY view of the green. That is , unless you 'beginners luck' it like me and hook a hybrid to 5 ft from the left waters edge.

I would be inclined to get rid of the bunkering in the mounded area and cut it at about 1" where it was enticing enough to hit it there to get a look at the green but with the grass cut at 1" one would get some funky lies.

[Joel Zuckerman]

The 5th hole is all kinds of cool. Dye has built many versions of the short blind par 4. Is this the best one?

He did a similar front-9 hole at the Ford Plantation, maybe 30-40 miles south as the crow flies from LCC.  Couldn't tell you which is better though.

[Mark Saltzman]

The 5th hole is all kinds of cool. Dye has built many versions of the short blind par 4. Is this the best one?

He did a similar front-9 hole at the Ford Plantation, maybe 30-40 miles south as the crow flies from LCC.  Couldn't tell you which is better though.

The one at Old Marsh is quite good too.

[jeffwarne]

Mark,

Thanks for posting.

The 5th is certainly an eye catching hole, although with red hazard stakes all down the left it would seem worthwhile to take a gamble off the tee and hope to hit a big high right-to-left shot because even if you do hit into the water you'll be able drop out near the waters edge and then hit your next shot up the length of the green rather than otherwise playing safe and having to come in blind over the dead mammoth mound and the various bunkers.

Looking forward to the rest of the photo tour.

All the best

My problem with the 5th was that I never thought the risk/reward proposition was worth it. The area that you would be trying to hit it to is perhaps a couple thousand square feet, if not less. It was simply not a true option in my mind.

The blind nature of teh shot coupled with the water left and behind just seems to be "trying too hard" to do SOMETHING here. Too many concepts merged into a jumbled mess In my honest opinion.

Hmmmm, maybe it is posts like this that cause some to post under a "screen name"  

Greg,
Disagree, although it took a few playes to figure it out for me. (although maybe I'm just angling for a return invitation )
Windless, I used to hit 3, 4, or 5 iron towards the center with a draw, between 110-90 yards out
Plenty of room to gain a partial view, and more importantly, a better angle with a ball that landed center and rolled a bit left.
If it didn't work out, you had a perfect angle for a drop and a good chance at par anyway.
playing farther up and to the right made for a really tough second as the green runs towards the water away from the player, in addition to the shot being blind

[Jim Sherma]

Mark,

Thanks for posting.

The 5th is certainly an eye catching hole, although with red hazard stakes all down the left it would seem worthwhile to take a gamble off the tee and hope to hit a big high right-to-left shot because even if you do hit into the water you'll be able drop out near the waters edge and then hit your next shot up the length of the green rather than otherwise playing safe and having to come in blind over the dead mammoth mound and the various bunkers.

Looking forward to the rest of the photo tour.

All the best

My problem with the 5th was that I never thought the risk/reward proposition was worth it. The area that you would be trying to hit it to is perhaps a couple thousand square feet, if not less. It was simply not a true option in my mind.

The blind nature of teh shot coupled with the water left and behind just seems to be "trying too hard" to do SOMETHING here. Too many concepts merged into a jumbled mess In my honest opinion.

Hmmmm, maybe it is posts like this that cause some to post under a "screen name" 

Greg,
Strongly disagree.
Windless, I used to hit 3, 4, or 5 iron towards the center with a draw, between 110-90 yards out
Plenty of room to gain a partial view, and more importantly, a better angle with a ball that labded cebter and rolled a bit left.
If it didn't work out, you had a perfect angle for a drop and a good chance at par anyway.
playing farther up and to the right made for a really tough second as the green runs towards the water away from the player, in addition to the shot being blind

Thank you for this inquiry and answer. I was wondering this myself and didn't have time to post the question.

The hole looked contrived to me, what is the length of tee ball needed to get to 120 or so with at least a view of the flag?

[jeffwarne]

Jim,
Depends on tees played.
It used to max out at 290, then went to I believe 304-maybe even longer.
We played it a lot at 280-290ish, and at that time before old age, Budweiser,and posting GCA made me so much stronger ,
I hit a 5 iron 175-180 and 3 iron 195-200.
Hitting it farther than that only made the angle worse

[Mark Saltzman]

The front-nine is very much an out-and-back routing, and the 7th is the third of five holes that run in the same direction.  Once again the golfer is given ample room off the tee, but it is the angled, swaled green that requires precision.




The 8th is a par-3 of some 180 yards for most, though a back tee can stretch the hole to close to 230.  The downhill tee shot is fairly inviting, but it is when the golfer misses that he realizes all of the trouble.




As seen from behind-right, this angle gives a good indication of the size of the ridge in the 8th green:




Something of an awkward, long par-4 where precision is demanded from the tee.  First time golfers will have trouble selecting an ideal line as a hidden bunker lurks left a jut of trees sit ready to block-out tee shots down the right...




After a perfectly placed tee shot on this second reverse dogleg of the nine, the golfer is left with an approach over a series of foreshortening bunkers:




The 9th green is smaller than most on the course and easily the most internally contoured on the front-nine.

[Mark Saltzman]

The 10th hole is the second of a quarter of doglegging par-4s, though the transition from treed to open to treed to open keeps the holes from feeling repetitive.  This is yet another reverse dogleg and a hole whose approach looks far easier than it plays:




Looking back from the green, bunkers that were hidden on the approach are now clearly seen:




A look at the wrap-around bunker behind the 10th green:




The 11th is routed through trees though not constrained; the golfer must play near the lone fairway bunker to have a clear view of the green,




Which is small and severely contoured:




After playing through the trees on the tee shot, the 12th hole opens up at the dogleg .  The green is large, tilting toward the water, and defined by a green running through its centre:




After a long transition, the pay-off is the stunning view from the tee on the 130 yard par-3 13th:




Another green that is subtle and extremely difficult as the high back-right side sits several feet above the front-left:




Missing long is not an option:




The 14th can play brutally difficult, especially if into the wind on the day I played it.  A good example of Pete Dye using the Line of Instinct to tempt the golfer to play too far to the left:




Playing away from the trouble leaves this clear view of a green




That tilts severely from back to front:

[Mark Saltzman]

The simplicity of the tee shot on the par-5 15th gives way to a series of trees, bunkers and mounds on the lay-up and approach. 




A double hazard awaits along the left...




And on the right!






Like at the 2nd, Dye varies the angle from the tee on the par-3 17th with the back set demanding a far longer carry over water.




Internal contouring splits the green into 3 bowls:




A good, mid-length finisher with a tee shot over a diagonal bunker that protects the short line into the green:




The green is massive and tilted severely from back to front:

[Matt Kardash]

The 15th green really sits in there beautifully: low to the ground and tucked in between those trees