[V. Kmetz]

Though an artificial, imposed sort of evaluation, I cannot deny that #9 and #10 are often an important part of my regard of the course and the round.  Whether or not your choice comes near the clubhouse or not, can you lay down a few  that light your pilot light as to how the outward nine is ended and how the inward nine begins. In so listing, you can speak to flow or the individual character of the holes.

Ball rolling...

Most unique: 
Quaker Ridge - back to back 3s, one short, the other long.
Apawamis - back to back 5s, one long, the other short (very unique given the nature of the balance of the course)
Mohansic (a surprisingly good muni in Yorktown, NY) - back to back 5s, the 9th is an unheralded premier architectural hole; the 10th is more of a half-par 470ish type.  The difference between the two is so stark, so jarring, but also an opportunity to make your card look better to par, that the combination acts like a magnet for one's round.

Perfect for the Course:
Yale - The stunning appearance of the Biarritz 9th and topography of the 10th just re-invest all my senses into what I'm doing and how demanding, in varied ways, this course is.  The longer walk to the 10th also seems to segregate or make a perfect divide between the nines.  Plus, they are fun.

cheers

vk

[Tom_Doak]

Honestly, I've never thought a lot about this topic before.

The only course I've built where this really bothered me was my very first -- High Pointe.  There was a profound break between the front and back nines, due to the distance between them and also the change from open orchard to wooded and more rolling ground.

I guess Lost Dunes also has a profound break, with a long transit from 9 green to 10 tee due to the awkward environmental areas around the clubhouse site.

And I guess the great thing about a lot of my favorite links is that there is no break at all ... you're just out at the far end of the course and lucky to find a bathroom or a halfway hut!

[Matt MacIver]

Turnberry popped in my head right away. Great view and no where near the pro shop but a quaint snack shop.

When I was first starting out I would gauge the quality of the course (or at least where I spent my $) on the quantity and quality of the food at the turnhouse: after 50+ swings and 2.5 hours I needed a burger and not just Capt's Wafers.   Nowadays I don't eat all that much at the turn but still judge a course lesser if its a long slog to the 10th tee.  Kiawah is just nuts in this regard.  The death march can serve to clear your head and put away the bad front nine, which I'm familiar with. 

[Mac Plumart]

Shinnecock is amazing!!

The approach to 9 is unforgettable and then 10 is a very unique hole.

[Ian Andrew]

Nothing like Beacon Hall's changeover ... pictures from Mark's Saltzman's photo tour

Beacon Hall's 9th Tee


The 9th Approach


The 10th Tee


The 10th approach

[V. Kmetz]

That is a honey, that Beacon Hall...

Tom.  I admit readily that it's kind of an artificial construct but I'm often attenuated to it regardless.  It's not a make or break, essential feature of good architecture, but sometimes when the right note is hit, it improves the experience.

cheers

vk

[Carl Nichols]

VK:
My first thought was WF West.....

[Jaeger Kovich]

I have played 2 courses this year that have carts to shuttle golfers from 9 green to 10 tee, because its that far... both promote walking and caddies!

Pasatiempo using the road as a transition into a different landscape with the barrancas in play on the upper portion of the property works well for me. 

Also, not that I have been there, but the transition to the back nine at Augusta National likely plays the biggest emotional turn based on the Masters broadcast.

[V. Kmetz]

Carl,

Of course, I really like that one as well.  Both holes command incredible vistas and are fun to play and there is discernible "refresh" in the round.  If you can play both well (#9 as a short card 5 isn't a mental hassle), it really gives a boost to ones medal, match, Nassau type day.

cheers

vk

[Sean_A]

One that really stands out for me is Huntercombe.  Not because of some mesmerizing holes or change of scenery, but because one doesn't realize in the slightest that there is a front/back difference.  The course just flows as 18 without any sort of hint that you get at TOC wiith the loop or the out n' back designs.  Its difficult to explain, but Huntercombe feels different to me in this way.  Beau Desert is sort of the same thing - without a card in hand or recounting holes many people don't know when "the turn" is because nothing changes.  Cleeve Cloud too is an example of just floating around a course without an idea what hole is what. 

Ciao

[V. Kmetz]

SA,

No doubt "seamlessness" is another quality which can be ascribed to a "Turn" grouping...

cheers

vk

[Steve Lapper]

I would strongly argue that Somerset Hills maybe the strongest example I've yet to see.

[Adam Clayman]

Ian, Very funny, thanx,

As VK intimates, there's more than one parameter to how one feels about ebb and flow. I'd throw in that it doesn't matter so much where this feeling happens (between nines or not) as long as it causes someone to feel something, somewhere.

The first time I can remember feeling something around the turn was at Pinon Hills. I sensed how the challenges were increasing as we played the 9th, but even more so, was how it caused me to crave more. Playing the next sequence did not let me down, either.

Beverly and Interlachen come to mind as interesting transitions. And at CPC those transitions are felt numerous times throughout the route.

[Howard Riefs]

I have played 2 courses this year that have carts to shuttle golfers from 9 green to 10 tee, because its that far... both promote walking and caddies!

Is Kiawah, Ocean Course one of them?

[Matthew Petersen]

Pebble Beach would be "unique" in that you don't have any sense of change from #9 to #10. "The turn" comes after #10 when you head up #11 to play up the hill and away from the water.

I think Tom mentions it in the CG as well, but the most profound dislocation of nines I've ever played is at Ventana Canyon's Canyon course. The ninth green is .7 miles (as the crow flies, actual golf cart drive length is over a mile) from the tenth tee. I think the course was originally built as 27 holes and what is now the Canyon front was added later. Still, it's profoundly weird. Also, the nines end up with a very different feel as well.

[Garland Bayley]

Palouse Ridge has a 350 yard, all uphill walk from the 9th green to the 10th tee. If they weren't a cartball course, they would probably come to their senses and reverse the nines.

[V. Kmetz]

Hearing some critiques of the "walks" between the nines, I'm reminded that I worked at a club in Stamford, CT - Rockrimmon CC, which had not only a wonderful water par 3 9th (one of the best of its kind to play or admire visually) but had a singular feature as you went up the steep hill of about 120 yards to the decent 10th.

It was a tram...a mining style train outfitted to be an open air surrey.  Up until 2003, this was one of the signature peculiarities of the course (a hidden gem overall), made more peculiar as it was claimed to be "the Shortest Interstate Railroad" in the country.  Indeed Rockrimmon is divided by Stamford, CT and Pound Ridge, NY, with most of the course in the latter but the clubhouse and three holes in the former.

However, this was apocryphal as later research revealed the state-line was actually 30 yards north of the north terminus of the tram line, running just a few feet alongside my starter/Caddiemaster's office.

But it was a hell of a feature, and was even part of the club logo until just a few years ago.  the tram died in 2003, when Otis elevator men were repairing it, failed to set the parking brake adequately and when they de-coupled it from the steel spool line, it flew liek a rocket down the hill, smashing into the modest barrier at the south station, exploded into a hundred pieces, with the frame somersaulting wildly down to the lake edge 60-70 more yards below.  It was too costly to replace and too arcane to insure under modern standards so they eliminated the rail line altogether.

cheers

vk

[Alex Miller]

Industry Hills' Ike Course has a no longer in use funicular behind its 9th green. It goes up some 100+ feet back to the clubhouse. Now it is a 3/4 mile cartride up the side of the second hole and back down the first fairway. It's...not great.

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