Lunke - Curtis, bigger surprise and why?

[John_Conley]

People would have thought you were nuts if you had predicted either to win on the Tuesday before the event.

Which was a bigger surprise Major victory?  Hilary Homeyer in the U.S. Open or Ben Curtis in The Open Championship?

I'll go with Hilary Homeyer Lunke.  The shallow depth of field (comparatively) for women's golf cuts both ways.  Sure, she's a far inferior player to Sorenstam, Pak, or Webb, but she also had to beat fewer wonderful players.

I'll take her because her college and amateur success actually cooled off after her sophomore year at Stanford.  While Curtis hadn't done any more than she had as a professional, I always felt he was a guy who hadn't achieved his successes YET - while it sure looked like Hilary may not ever have professional accomplishments to point to.

You can make a good argument either way.  Any thoughts?  Both are shocking victories.

(Also, Homeyer had an extra day to blow it if you are taking into account HOW they each won.)

[david h. carroll]

Walrus' back to back were huge suprises

[George Pazin]

My vote is for Lunke as well. The way she stood up in the last group gets the nod to me.

I enjoyed Ben's a little more, though.

[JakaB]

You guys make me sick...Who did Lunke beat.....Curtis beat Tiger, VJ, a good Dane and a guy who should be better but still has a name ie: Love.  Its always less of a surprise when an upset happens in mediocre competition..but I forgot those gals are good...puke.   This is like comparing a Greyhound race on Tuesday in Florida to the Kentucky Derby.

[George Pazin]

The question was surprise, not who pulled the bigger upset.

To me, those are different questions.

Sorry to disappoint, Jaks.

[John_Conley]

The field included over 100 players.  She beat all of them, including a late-charging Annika Sorenstam whose game is clearly several rungs above Hilary Homeyer's.

I'll take your comments as a vote for Ben Curtis.

It is hard to choose between two very unlikely winners.

FWIW, Stadler's win on the Tour event played opposite a Major isn't even in the same realm.  He's won over a dozen times on Tour and has also posted some high finishes this season.  I wasn't the least bit surprised at his win on the Champions Tour.

[A_Clay_Man]

With the Tuesday qualifier in the original hypothesis it would seem even. But how about Saturday night or even all day sunday. In the Womens' Lunke was in position, her shorter ball made you wonder how and why she got there in the first place. But Sunday at the open, noone (even Curtis Strange didn't give the guy a chance as the guy walked up to the 72nd green. So, I'd have to say Ben Curtis was a much bigger surprise because it happened so suddenly. Now, they both owe alot to their respective caddies.

[Rick Shefchik]

I thought Curtis' win was the bigger surprise. I'm going with JakaB's leaderboard reasoning, albeit without the contempt for the women's game.

Nevertheless, I expected Lunke to win, given her competition -- an out-of-sorts Sorenstam, another nobody in Stanford and a zombie-like, over-the-hill Kelly Robbins.

I never expected Curtis to win. I said to my wife on Sunday, when Curtis went two shots up on the field at the turn, "I feel sorry for this poor kid. Now he's got to live with the fact that he blew a two-shot lead to lose the British Open."

I fully expected him to play the rest of the holes in around 4 over par (which he did), and with the likes of Woods, Singh, Bjorn, Garcia and Love on his tail, there was no way that would be good enougn. No way...
 

[George Pazin]

Shivas -

Look at the "RSG Weaknesses" thread - DM referenced a few of you guys there.

You guys almost have me convinced - maybe Curtis was the bigger surprise.

I think if he had been in the last group & drained that putt, I would be dead convinced. But he posted that score without the pressure of knowing what was happening behind him....

Let me think a bit more.

[Rick Shefchik]

George -- No question that Curtis's final putt on 18 would have been infinitely more difficult had he known that Bjorn had just doubled the 16th. He didn't know what everyone else from Sandwich to Tierra del Fuego knew -- that his putt was to win the British Open.

I'm not saying he wouldn't have made it anyway, but I think he was really lucky that he didn't have all the FACTS at hand.

[John_Conley]

Seems like consensus here is that Curtis was a bigger surprise.

How 'bout this for a shocker?  The three in the playoff for the women were all AMERICAN!  That's the biggest surprise of all.

(It's okay, Hee Won Han came right back with a win.)

[Darren_Kilfara]

George -- No question that Curtis's final putt on 18 would have been infinitely more difficult had he known that Bjorn had just doubled the 16th. He didn't know what everyone else from Sandwich to Tierra del Fuego knew -- that his putt was to win the British Open.

I'm not saying he wouldn't have made it anyway, but I think he was really lucky that he didn't have all the FACTS at hand.

Rick, I'll agree with you that Curtis felt much less pressure over his final putt than he would have if he'd have known what Bjorn was doing on 16. But his putt was most assuredly NOT to win the British Open:

--Bjorn still needed only two pars at the end to tie.
--Singh and Tiger needed to play the last two holes in one under par to tie.
--Immediately after Curtis made his putt, Love faced a short birdie putt at 16 to go to one under.

All of the above had to fail before Curtis won.

Cheers,
Darren

[Andrew_Roberts]

Lunke,  is the biggest surprise.

She is the Corey Pavin of women's golf.  She beared down and put all of her skills together to make one special week.  She shot 80 and something like a 74 in qualifying to make it by one.  She went out at the U.S. open and played the best golf of her life.  I am sorry to say but I believe we might never hear from her again.

Now Curtis is also a surprise.  But the difference between the 400th player in the world and the 1st is really quite small when you look at the whole picture.  Somebody reported that Tiger on average would have beat Ben Curtis by an average of 13.6 shots over 4 days.  Ben had a great week but the difference between Ben Curtis and Tiger Woods is less than what's between Hillary Lunke and Annika Sorenstam.  What people forget is that at one time Ben was the top am in the country.  

And Ben is a very good player and the main reason we probably have not heard of him is because he is a young pro.  It's hard for a lot of people to change to the lifestyle of the pgatour.  New golf courses, new hotels, lots of flying, new everything every week.  And how he has to adjust again as Open Champion.  

Ben Curtis looks more like a major champion than Hillary Lunke.

[Rick Shefchik]

Darren --

Technically, you're right, of course.
 
But realistically (in my mind, anyway), I knew Curtis would at least be in a playoff if he made the putt -- and if he missed, I expected either Bjorn, Singh or Woods would find a way to finish a shot ahead of him. I believe Curtis would have been thinking the same way if he knew what was going on.

[Dan Kelly]

Darren --

Rick has this one right.

His putt was for a CHANCE to win the British Open. And he didn't know that. And that made it immeasurably less difficult than if he'd known: Make it or go home!

You've got the tape. Look at his face after he makes the putt on 18. That face is saying: Well, close but no cigar; I gave it my best shot. At least that's what I saw.  

[Darren_Kilfara]

Darren --

Rick has this one right.

His putt was for a CHANCE to win the British Open. And he didn't know that. And that made it immeasurably less difficult than if he'd known: Make it or go home!

You've got the tape. Look at his face after he makes the putt on 18. That face is saying: Well, close but no cigar; I gave it my best shot. At least that's what I saw.  

Dan, reread the first paragraph of my post and get back to me, will you?

[Buck Wolter]

Isn't Curtis one of the biggest upsets in sports history? To win in his first major is insane, beyond even Daly at Crooked Stick, though driving all night with a bottle of Jack to make the tee time is a pretty good story. My guess is you have to go back to Francis Ouimet winning the US Open to get a bigger upset.

I have to give a nod to JakaB on the Lunke story as great as it was. Half that field was teenagers it seemed, they may be the future of women's golf but until multiple 13 yr old's stop qualifying the depth of that field has to be questioned.

[jg7236]

My vote is for Ben Curtis.  A normal "Joe" from the great state of Ohio who was ranked around 300 on the PGA Tour.  I played junior golf with him while growing up in Ohio.  One particular tournament I can remember is the Pizza Hut Open which I played evey year from about the age of 13-18.  The interesting fact about the Pizza Hut Open is that it was held every year at Ben Curtis's grandfather's golf course in Ostrander, Ohio, just north of Columbus.  A great public course, always in good shape.  One particular time I remember is when I was in 10th or 11th grade playing the Pizza Hut Open.  I was playing with Ben Curtis, I started off pretty rusty in the early morning fog and ended of shooting a 76, while Ben Curtis shot a 79.  I quess that is currently my caim to fame, I beat the guy who won the British Open.  Ben is winning British Opens while I have two damn degrees, bartending, and can't find a damn job in golf course architecture, landscape architecture, or city planning.

Cheers,
John