[Emile Bonfiglio]

because of its proximity to the sea? Bandon gives you the forever views but you can feel the spray of the ocean at Pebble. Would the courses at Bandon have been better if they had coastline like Pebble Beach or do you like how they feel towering above the beach?

EDIT: When referencing Bandon I mean Bandon/Pacific Dune and how their ocean front holes compare to Pebble's.

[Ronald Montesano]

moot

[Michael Essig]

moot

I agree.  However, I was fortunate enough to play both within 45 days of each other not too long after PD opened about 10 years ago, and when asked by my wife which one I would rather play, I didn't hesitate - Bandon.  And where do I keep going back - Bandon.  And where am I going in two months (assuming my son keeps his grades up) - Bandon.

[Bart Bradley]

moot

I agree.  However, I was fortunate enough to play both within 45 days of each other not too long after PD opened about 10 years ago, and when asked by my wife which one I would rather play, I didn't hesitate - Bandon.  And where do I keep going back - Bandon.  And where am I going in two months (assuming my son keeps his grades up) - Bandon.

Michael:

But a lot of metrics go into that decision...price, pace of play, proximity of other great courses, distance from home....etc.

Quality of the course is only one factor in that decision.  True?

Bart

[Jeb Bearer]

Not having played either course, are the holes away from the ocean as good at Pebble as at Bandon? The land certainly doesn't look as compelling.

[Michael Essig]

Bart, absolutely.  I started to include in my answer pace of play and price being factors that influenced me to say that proximity to the water is a moot question.  Because the two courses have similar enough proximity to water, with the cliffs along 8 at Pebble being maybe as high as anything at Bandon, it is the other factors that make me play one over the other.  When you get down to it, the water views are vast at both, so lowering you closer to the water's edge may bring the water a bit closer to you and for the typical person the proximity is preferred, but there is not enough of a difference to matter between those two courses.

Despite proximity to water, I don't recall hardly glimpsing over at it at Royal County Down, and the lack of water view doesn't change the fact that the course is fantastic.  And I would never, ever complain that the architect made a mistake by not utilizing the water view, or should have knocked down some dunes to enhance the view.  Maybe knowing it is there, and taking a glance over at it once in a while is enough for me.  

[Tom_Doak]

because of its proximity to the sea? Bandon gives you the forever views but you can feel the spray of the ocean at Pebble. Would the courses at Bandon have been better if they had coastline like Pebble Beach or do you like how they feel towering above the beach?

Some people may express a preference for one setting or the other ... actually, I think Pebble's advantage in setting has more to do with the CURVE of the coastline than the height of the cliff.  

But, that does not make one course or the other better.  Each course was designed around the piece of land it inhabits.

[Bill_McBride]

I gotta tell you guys something.   Pebble and Bandon Dunes have nothing on Victoria Golf Club in British Columbia.  The difference is that Pebble and Bandon's waterfront holes are atop 100' cliffs.  At Victoria the waterfront holes are ON the water.  What an amazing difference. 

[Michael Essig]

Not having played either course, are the holes away from the ocean as good at Pebble as at Bandon? The land certainly doesn't look as compelling.

If anything, that is where Pebble falls short a little - the inland holes are not as impressive for me - 1 is nothing special, I like 2 & 3 despite not being on the water, 4-10 are on the water with some classic holes, but 11 - 13 are nothing special, 14 is a brute par 5 - one of the hardest holes you can ever play, 15 is nothing special, I like 16, and then you are back to the ocean for 17 and 18.

If you took the water out of Pebble, would we say glowing things about it?  I don't know.  Maybe we should start a thread asking that question.

Don't get me wrong, I am not going to turn down a chance to play Pebble, and I love the course when I do have the opportunity, but the courses at Bandon are different - in a good way.  More than anything, I believe they make you think more from the tee.  Bandon only plays 6100 yards from the tees I typically play, which is short for me, so distance doesn't factor into this.  The courses at Bandon move and flow across the land different than Pebble, and the water at Bandon is just "that big blue thing over to the west."  Pebble integrates the water/cliffs into the holes more - ie 8 - but without the water, the holes lack character IMHO.   At Bandon, you take away the water and the course would be almost as great.

Having said that, Bandon Trails gets one-half the play that BD, PD and Old Mac get.  So maybe I am totally wrong.

[Terry Lavin]

Pebble has six crap holes. On an 18 hole course. Bandon might have six crap holes on four courses. Pebble's great holes are world class and it has all of those tournament memories which are irreplaceable.

As a resort, it's not even close. Pebble is overpriced, arrogant and spotty. Bandon is consistent, fun, dramatic and pure.

[Michael Essig]

I gotta tell you guys something.   Pebble and Bandon Dunes have nothing on Victoria Golf Club in British Columbia.  The difference is that Pebble and Bandon's waterfront holes are atop 100' cliffs.  At Victoria the waterfront holes are ON the water.  What an amazing difference. 

Hello Bill.  When we were at Marine Drive CC, did you pay attention to the water?  Wasn't it almost at the course's level?  Maybe its me, but I just don't pay too much attention to the height of the course in relation to the water.

Arguably, the fact that numerous holes at Pebble are slightly elevated - 7, 9, 10, 17 and 18 - is the sweet spot; not too low and not too high.  But there are too many other factors, for me, that matter more.

[Michael Essig]

Pebble has six crap holes. On an 18 hole course. Bandon might have six crap holes on four courses. Pebble's great holes are world class and it has all of those tournament memories which are irreplaceable.

As a resort, it's not even close. Pebble is overpriced, arrogant and spotty. Bandon is consistent, fun, dramatic and pure.

I think Terry has an opinion

[Jud_T]

Pebble has six crap holes. On an 18 hole course. Bandon might have six crap holes on four courses. Pebble's great holes are world class and it has all of those tournament memories which are irreplaceable.

As a resort, it's not even close. Pebble is overpriced, arrogant and spotty. Bandon is consistent, fun, dramatic and pure.

Wow.  Most I've agreed with the judge since the Cubs dominated!

[Ronald Montesano]

My first comeuppance on this site was when I accused PB of having any "crap" holes. Bob Huntley let me have it (I think it was Bob...getting long in the tooth here.) Surprised that a purveyor of jurisprudence would make such an accusation. Hyperbolic, methinks.

Re: spray of the ocean. I always pack a watering can and a portable fan when I go a-golfing. I invert the can and turn on the fan and ODALAY! Instant spray. That or I stand downwind from a chronic hocker.

[Wade Whitehead]

As a resort, it's not even close. Pebble is overpriced, arrogant and spotty. Bandon is consistent, fun, dramatic and pure.

Pebble costs more, but aren't they both overpriced?

WW

[Jud_T]

Wade,

When you find a resort with 4 courses that are this good and this highly rated in one spot for less money let me know ASAP...

[David Ober]

Pebble is my golf personal golf Nirvana. I just can't get enough of that coastline and the look of that place. And MPCC isn't far behind....

[Jason Thurman]

Maybe neither resort is overpriced, considering what they offer. But they're both damn sure expensive.

The running farce around here that Bandon is a great value while Pebble is unreasonably expensive is cut from the same double-standard that Mucci's "controversial" claim is trying to address. 100% of the clientele at both resorts is one completely willing to blow lots of cash on golf. The only difference at Pebble is the preponderance of other things to blow lots of cash on.

I haven't been to Bandon Dunes (yet), but it needs to be awfully good to be better than Pebble. Not many courses on the planet are. Watching play today, it's hard to imagine another set of greens so small that still manage to produce so many short game options. For all the focus on the coastline, that's the real strength of the course as a design, and I found the inland greens made those holes worthy of sharing the course with the oceanfront ones (with the exception of 12, which might be the worst par 3 in this hemisphere).

[V. Kmetz]

just on the Pebble side of it: without regard to economic value, resort offerings.

I've hear many people repeat that Pebble has 6 lesser holes...in comparison to the holes with shoreline surrounds

I'm presuming people mean:

#1, #13, #15...which others? (Though 13 and 15 have seemingly been improved by their 04-05 bunker additions)

I think 2,3 and 4 are excellent holes and the Nicklaus designed 5th is a significant improvement to the old inland 5th, yet has a green site that is very un-Pebble in its demands.  Perhaps that will evolve with time.

11 and 12 are not bland holes either, but that is just my opinion.


cheers

vk

[David Ober]

12 would be a great hole ... from 175.

Maybe neither resort is overpriced, considering what they offer. But they're both damn sure expensive.

The running farce around here that Bandon is a great value while Pebble is unreasonably expensive is cut from the same double-standard that Mucci's "controversial" claim is trying to address. 100% of the clientele at both resorts is one completely willing to blow lots of cash on golf. The only difference at Pebble is the preponderance of other things to blow lots of cash on.

I haven't been to Bandon Dunes (yet), but it needs to be awfully good to be better than Pebble. Not many courses on the planet are. Watching play today, it's hard to imagine another set of greens so small that still manage to produce so many short game options. For all the focus on the coastline, that's the real strength of the course as a design, and I found the inland greens made those holes worthy of sharing the course with the oceanfront ones (with the exception of 12, which might be the worst par 3 in this hemisphere).

[David Kelly]

As a resort, it's not even close. Pebble is overpriced, arrogant and spotty. Bandon is consistent, fun, dramatic and pure.

And overpriced.

I'd play Pebble Beach 9-1 over Bandon Dunes.  Old Macdonald and Pacific Dunes are a different matter.

[Jud_T]

The running farce around here that Bandon is a great value while Pebble is unreasonably expensive is cut from the same double-standard that Mucci's "controversial" claim is trying to address.

Well the cheapest room at Pebble is $715 which is generally required to get a tee time for $495.  All-in $1210 and no replay rate that I'm aware of.  Peak season rates at Bandon are $235 for resort guests and rooms start at $210 for a total of $445 or slightly more than a third of the price, not to mention The $120 replay rate or the discount winter rates for rooms and golf.  So maybe not cheap but certainly relatively attractive.

[Andy Troeger]

Personally, I have Pebble (the golf course) as being slightly better than any course at Bandon. The best holes there are so compelling--the 6th, 7th, and 8th have to get my vote for best consecutive three holes all having different pars. And then 9 and 10...   I understand the argument about weak holes, but other than #15 and maybe #12 I just don't see a lot of really weak holes. Pac Dunes and Bandon Trails are in my personal top ten though, so the gap isn't signficant by any means.

Bandon (the resort) wins pretty comfortably. The quantity of quality golf, the atmosphere, the walking climate, and the pricing would easily make it the place I'd return to first. Its hard to find four courses of that quality anywhere in the world, let alone available at one resort.  

[Patrick_Mucci]

Pebble has six crap holes.

Terry,

I must have missed them in all the times I've played Pebble Beach in the last 40 years.

Which are the "six crap" holes ?

As a resort, it's not even close. Pebble is overpriced, arrogant and spotty.

That's got nothing to do with the golf course

Bandon is consistent, fun, dramatic and pure.

Mike Keiser's vision is a great destination golf complex, no doubt about that.

[Terry Lavin]

Pebble has six crap holes.

Terry,

I must have missed them in all the times I've played Pebble Beach in the last 40 years.

Which are the "six crap" holes ?

 

Well, well, well, I threw out some Mucci-like chum and landed the biggest fish of all.

[Tags:]

Tags:

[Tags:]

Tags:

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()