Overlooked Courses

[Mike Hendren]

Though it hosted the Wyndham Championship on the PGA tour for a number of years, I rarely see a mention of Forest Oaks CC in Greensboro, NC.   Love Design Group did an outstanding renovation of a rather tired Ellis Maples housing course, enhancing the natural wooded and rolling site with beautiful bunkering and top notch green complexes.   An ideal members course that can also test the game's best.   For example, this photo looks back up the 11th fairway, a par five with a biarritz green:



Mike

[Mike Hendren]

Sven, I'm astonished you played and mentioned Country Hills.  It's 15 minutes from my office and it's never dawned on me to play there.  Might have to give it a go.

Bogey

[J_ Crisham]

Columbia CC (DC area)
Kahkwa Club (Erie, PA)
Winchester (Boston)
Forsgate (NJ)
Allegheny (PA) - great work by Gil Hanse here...the two 9's are VERY different
Monroe (Rochester)
Chechesee Creek (SC)
Crag Burn (Buffalo)
Indianwood Old

These next ones I'm not sure are 'overlooked' but I am surprised they don't get more national attention...Sleepy Hollow, Cal Club, Eastward Ho!

For Canada, I agree with Montebello. I'd add Kawartha as probably the most overlooked course in the country. Sarnia GCC is a good, solid course that gets absolutely no attention.

Matthew, good call on Winchester, another club in the area is Charles River that is very solid yet seldom mentioned on GCA. As far as Cal Club and Eastward Ho are concerned, these are spectacular tracks that are well known/discussed in the circles I run in- solidly top 100 Classics.

[Mark McKeever]

Jack,

Agreed that Eastward Ho! is discussed a fair amount.  Its not overlooked but it is VERY underrated.

Mark

[Paul Jones]

Ran did a write up on Lookout Mountain and I still think it is overlooked and underrated.

[J_ Crisham]

Jack,

Agreed that Eastward Ho! is discussed a fair amount.  Its not overlooked but it is VERY underrated.

Mark

Mark,  I agree about EH- I place it in my top 4 in Mass, right  there with Myopia and TCC. Arguably one of the great opening holes in golf. #10 may be the hardest par 3 in the state

[Terry Lavin]

Ran did a write up on Lookout Mountain and I still think it is overlooked and underrated.

Intended or not, calling Lookout Mountain "overlooked" is a pretty good pun.

As for the substance of the thread, in Chicago, I'd offer up:

Edgewood Valley, a Bill Diddel design on dramatic (especially for Chicago) terrain.  Terrific golf course with a bunch of old fashioned demonic greens;

The South Course at Olympia Fields is having a bit of a renaissance, but it was overlooked for decades and decades and decades and still doesn't get proper respect, IMHO;

Exmoor is still a hidden gem, despite the efforts here by myself and others to give it some p.r.  A really good mix of holes, nice routing, great restoration by Prichard.  Probably time for a Golfweek rater outing???; and

Flossmoor CC, which hosted a PGA in the 1920's and promptly got put in the shadows by its neighbor, Olympia Fields North.  In my judgment, the best set of greens in Chicagoland and a great mix of holes on some pretty interesting property.  Great renovation by Ray Hearn.

Nationally, I'd put LACC South in this category.  I've only played it a couple times, but I really enjoyed it.  Perhaps somebody who knows the course better could disabuse me of my notion that it's worthy of recognition but is overlooked because of the North Course.

I also think Country Club of Orlando is overlooked.  Great little old-time Donald Ross golf course with a thoughtful restoration by Brian Silva which included a newly constructed Redan hole that is very good.

[PCCraig]

I'm a member at one. As great as many of the courses discussed on GCA are, I kind of like it that it doesn't come up in every namedrop and/or thread.

In reality, there are plenty of overlooked (especially classic) courses. The only thing stopping most courses from being oogled here are a new set of hairy bunkers and greens with enough internal contour to be caught on film.

[Mark McKeever]

Ran did a write up on Lookout Mountain and I still think it is overlooked and underrated.

Intended or not, calling Lookout Mountain "overlooked" is a pretty good pun.

As for the substance of the thread, in Chicago, I'd offer up:

Edgewood Valley, a Bill Diddel design on dramatic (especially for Chicago) terrain.  Terrific golf course with a bunch of old fashioned demonic greens;

The South Course at Olympia Fields is having a bit of a renaissance, but it was overlooked for decades and decades and decades and still doesn't get proper respect, IMHO;

Exmoor is still a hidden gem, despite the efforts here by myself and others to give it some p.r.  A really good mix of holes, nice routing, great restoration by Prichard.  Probably time for a Golfweek rater outing???; and

Flossmoor CC, which hosted a PGA in the 1920's and promptly got put in the shadows by its neighbor, Olympia Fields North.  In my judgment, the best set of greens in Chicagoland and a great mix of holes on some pretty interesting property.  Great renovation by Ray Hearn.

Nationally, I'd put LACC South in this category.  I've only played it a couple times, but I really enjoyed it.  Perhaps somebody who knows the course better could disabuse me of my notion that it's worthy of recognition but is overlooked because of the North Course.

I also think Country Club of Orlando is overlooked.  Great little old-time Donald Ross golf course with a thoughtful restoration by Brian Silva which included a newly constructed Redan hole that is very good.

Terry was a champ and showed me Edgewood Valley and encouraged me to see Flossmoor as well when I was out in Chicago.  I have to echo the comments that the greens at Flossmoor are so effortless and fit in perfectly with the land.

Also, I was pleasantly surprised to see the dramatic land that Edgewood Valley encompasses.

Mark

[Jim Sherma]

I'm a member at one. As great as many of the courses discussed on GCA are, I kind of like it that it doesn't come up in every namedrop and/or thread.

In reality, there are plenty of overlooked (especially classic) courses. The only thing stopping most courses from being oogled here are a new set of hairy bunkers and greens with enough internal contour to be caught on film.

I have to agree that the time is ripe for a rethinking of many old-school parkland layouts. many will require the clearing out of some trees, but in general I believe that there are many parkland courses that do not get proper notince amongst folks that care about this stuff. maybe it is because they look so much of a piece that it is difficult to be awed or positively critique yet another good parkland course. If you look at the depth of quality in the Philly region alone it is easy to just fall into the "yeah it's nice, but it's not Pine Valley or Merion" mindset.

An example of this is Lehigh Country Club, Growing up I always liked it and yet it never had the reputation of Saucon Valley. Generally everyone thought of it as a nice private course that was a treat to play but nothing really special. They spent some money and got some hype and voila, a top-100 course. There are many courses in the northeast that could likely fall in this category.

[J_ Crisham]

I'm a member at one. As great as many of the courses discussed on GCA are, I kind of like it that it doesn't come up in every namedrop and/or thread.

In reality, there are plenty of overlooked (especially classic) courses. The only thing stopping most courses from being oogled here are a new set of hairy bunkers and greens with enough internal contour to be caught on film.

I have to agree that the time is ripe for a rethinking of many old-school parkland layouts. many will require the clearing out of some trees, but in general I believe that there are many parkland courses that do not get proper notince amongst folks that care about this stuff. maybe it is because they look so much of a piece that it is difficult to be awed or positively critique yet another good parkland course. If you look at the depth of quality in the Philly region alone it is easy to just fall into the "yeah it's nice, but it's not Pine Valley or Merion" mindset.

An example of this is Lehigh Country Club, Growing up I always liked it and yet it never had the reputation of Saucon Valley. Generally everyone thought of it as a nice private course that was a treat to play but nothing really special. They spent some money and got some hype and voila, a top-100 course. There are many courses in the northeast that could likely fall in this category.

Jim,  I agree with your comments- in your area think about Lancaster CC- if this course was in my hometown Chicago it would be top 3. The fact that it is out in the country versus Mainline Philly really works against it- I have LCC top 4 in Eastern Penn- it's that good IMO.

[Mark McKeever]

Schuylkill gets overlooked for the same reasons as Lancaster and Co.  These courses outside of the 1 hour radius get forgotten. 

Mark

[PCCraig]

I'm a member at one. As great as many of the courses discussed on GCA are, I kind of like it that it doesn't come up in every namedrop and/or thread.

In reality, there are plenty of overlooked (especially classic) courses. The only thing stopping most courses from being oogled here are a new set of hairy bunkers and greens with enough internal contour to be caught on film.

I have to agree that the time is ripe for a rethinking of many old-school parkland layouts. many will require the clearing out of some trees, but in general I believe that there are many parkland courses that do not get proper notince amongst folks that care about this stuff. maybe it is because they look so much of a piece that it is difficult to be awed or positively critique yet another good parkland course. If you look at the depth of quality in the Philly region alone it is easy to just fall into the "yeah it's nice, but it's not Pine Valley or Merion" mindset.

An example of this is Lehigh Country Club, Growing up I always liked it and yet it never had the reputation of Saucon Valley. Generally everyone thought of it as a nice private course that was a treat to play but nothing really special. They spent some money and got some hype and voila, a top-100 course. There are many courses in the northeast that could likely fall in this category.

Jim,  I agree with your comments- in your area think about Lancaster CC- if this course was in my hometown Chicago it would be top 3. The fact that it is out in the country versus Mainline Philly really works against it- I have LCC top 4 in Eastern Penn- it's that good IMO.

Right, really good golf courses get overlooked on a national level mainly due to belt notching. If rater/panelists are going to Chicago, the first places they are calling are Medinah, Butler, & Chicago Golf...not Edgewood Valley. If they come to MSP they're trying to hit Interlachen, Hazeltine, Minikahda, & maybe WBYC...and in doing so totally ignoring a bunch of really good courses that could easily be considered in the same class as the first 4.

[Lester George]

I think the DuPont Course at DuPont Country Club is highly underrated.  Alfred Tull original, renovated by yours truly.  Just a delightful place to play.

Lester

[J_ Crisham]

I'm a member at one. As great as many of the courses discussed on GCA are, I kind of like it that it doesn't come up in every namedrop and/or thread.

In reality, there are plenty of overlooked (especially classic) courses. The only thing stopping most courses from being oogled here are a new set of hairy bunkers and greens with enough internal contour to be caught on film.

I have to agree that the time is ripe for a rethinking of many old-school parkland layouts. many will require the clearing out of some trees, but in general I believe that there are many parkland courses that do not get proper notince amongst folks that care about this stuff. maybe it is because they look so much of a piece that it is difficult to be awed or positively critique yet another good parkland course. If you look at the depth of quality in the Philly region alone it is easy to just fall into the "yeah it's nice, but it's not Pine Valley or Merion" mindset.

An example of this is Lehigh Country Club, Growing up I always liked it and yet it never had the reputation of Saucon Valley. Generally everyone thought of it as a nice private course that was a treat to play but nothing really special. They spent some money and got some hype and voila, a top-100 course. There are many courses in the northeast that could likely fall in this category.

Jim,  I agree with your comments- in your area think about Lancaster CC- if this course was in my hometown Chicago it would be top 3. The fact that it is out in the country versus Mainline Philly really works against it- I have LCC top 4 in Eastern Penn- it's that good IMO.

Right, really good golf courses get overlooked on a national level mainly due to belt notching. If rater/panelists are going to Chicago, the first places they are calling are Medinah, Butler, & Chicago Golf...not Edgewood Valley. If they come to MSP they're trying to hit Interlachen, Hazeltine, Minikahda, & maybe WBYC...and in doing so totally ignoring a bunch of really good courses that could easily be considered in the same class as the first 4.

Pat,  I would play your club if I could only get access................

[Ian Andrew]

Brian Schneider told me I had to see Glens Falls CC, which I'd never heard anyone mention, either.

Tom,

He called me after the first nine to thank me for insisting he go there.
That was cool! It's certainly the biggest suprise I've had in the last 10 years.
Easily in my Top 100

Hope you enjoy it if you go.


My other would be Enniscrone. It's not perfect, but so what, its a crafty ride full of great suprises with some of the better unusual holes in golf.
That's an A+ in my books, flaws and all...

[Sven Nilsen]

Sven, I'm astonished you played and mentioned Country Hills.  It's 15 minutes from my office and it's never dawned on me to play there.  Might have to give it a go.

Bogey

Bogey:

If you get the chance, I'd appreciate an update.  Its been almost 13 years since I last played there, but the memories are fond.

If it means anything, Country Hills topped a rota that included Windtree, Forrest Crossing, Harpeth Hills, Shelby, McCabe, Nashboro Village and Teddy Rhodes.  If we were going to drive we might sneak out to Legacy or GreyStone.

Occasionally we'd spring for a round at the Hermitage or Legends, or get an invite to the Golf Club or Belle Meade, but in general if I had to pay more than $25 it wasn't happening.

Sven

[Jim Sherma]

I think the DuPont Course at DuPont Country Club is highly underrated.  Alfred Tull original, renovated by yours truly.  Just a delightful place to play.

Lester

Agree with DuPont, I have not played it since before the renovation, but really enjoyed when I did.I would put Hershey West on the list of the exurb-gems of Philadelphia.

[Alex Miller]

Sven, I'm astonished you played and mentioned Country Hills.  It's 15 minutes from my office and it's never dawned on me to play there.  Might have to give it a go.

Bogey

Bogey:

If you get the chance, I'd appreciate an update.  Its been almost 13 years since I last played there, but the memories are fond.

If it means anything, Country Hills topped a rota that included Windtree, Forrest Crossing, Harpeth Hills, Shelby, McCabe, Nashboro Village and Teddy Rhodes.  If we were going to drive we might sneak out to Legacy or GreyStone.

Occasionally we'd spring for a round at the Hermitage or Legends, or get an invite to the Golf Club or Belle Meade, but in general if I had to pay more than $25 it wasn't happening.

Sven

Haven't played all you had on the list, but I spent 6 weeks in Nashville one summer and I really enjoyed Harpeth Hills. It was my favorite over Forrest Crossing, McCabe (9 of 27 were closed), and Teddy Rhodes. It was just so...pleasant to be out there.

[jeffwarne]

Hard to know the difference between a "hidden gem", and an overlooked course, but I'll give it a shot.

Overlooked means to me something you're aware of but bypass.
Overlooked to me would be 2nd courses at 36 hole complexes that if they were seperate would be destinations themselves.
Valley Course at Portrush, Winged Foot East, Upper course at Baltusrol
Bann 9 at Castlerock, Portland Course at Troon (even though it's free)

Hidden gems would be courses like Dunfanaghy, Mulranny or Connemara Isles that weren't as much overlooked as unknown by the masses.

[Mark Saltzman]

Jeff, I think Southampton could fit in the overlooked category.  What about Laurel Links (never played but heard very good things)?

[jeffwarne]

Jeff, I think Southampton could fit in the overlooked category.  What about Laurel Links (never played but heard very good things)?

Southampton's certainly not hidden so yes I'd agree, overlooked.
Laurel Links overlooked-heading to the North Fork-Friar"s Head's gonna get the nod

Hidden gem? North fork CC perhaps in spots

Between the forks?
Gardiners bay overlooked
Hidden Gem-The Goat  (although quite unpolished )

[Paul Dolton]

I always think Sutton Coldfield gets overlooked, perhaps being so close to Little Aston and The Belfry.
Others i would mention are Crowborough Beacon, Hayling Island ,Southerdown and The Isle of Purbeck.

I have already been told by an ex-member that I am on thin ice for much preferring the winter course to the normal Sutton Coldfield.  Its easy to see why the summer version is over-looked as its choked by trees and rough.

Ciao

I think i played early in spring so the rough may have not been up. Do remember par 3 9th being over crowded with trees and a short par 4 early on the back 9 with the same problem.

[Carl Rogers]

I will see if my friend Scott Weersing agrees, but TD's Riverfront did not make into Golf Digest's Virginia's State list.  I guess the course comes with too many warning labels.

[Phil McDade]

Hard to know the difference between a "hidden gem", and an overlooked course, but I'll give it a shot.

Overlooked means to me something you're aware of but bypass.
Overlooked to me would be 2nd courses at 36 hole complexes that if they were seperate would be destinations themselves.
Valley Course at Portrush, Winged Foot East, Upper course at Baltusrol
Bann 9 at Castlerock, Portland Course at Troon (even though it's free)

Hidden gems would be courses like Dunfanaghy, Mulranny or Connemara Isles that weren't as much overlooked as unknown by the masses.

Jeff:

I'm probably splitting hairs here, but to me overlooked is a course of considerable architectural merit, that's simply not well-known (see previous comments on Crystal Downs pre-Confidential Guide), while "hidden gem" is more along the lines of a fun or interesting course to play, with some degree of architectural interest, but not of the caliber of an overlooked course. Most of the courses in "To the Nines" fit the hidden gem category, for me, along with a bunch of courses I saw in Scotland (Cullen, Dunaverty), that tend to be bypassed by many golfers. Spring Valley, a Langford in Wisconsin beloved by several here on GCA, to me is the epitome of a hidden gem.