Overlooked Courses

[V. Kmetz]

Siwanoy C.C - Bronxville, NY

[Lester George]

Keith Hills, NC

Lester

[Tom_Doak]

Keith Hills, NC

Lester:  There's one I've never heard of.  Is it yours?

Brian Schneider told me I had to see Glens Falls CC, which I'd never heard anyone mention, either.

[Lester George]

Tom,

Keith Hills is in Buies Creek, NC and is the home golf course for Campbell University.  It is not one of mine.  It was designed by Ellis and Dan Maples.  When I was stationed at Fort Bragg, NC my golf buddies and I would travel to the surrounding sand hills area on weekends to look for the "hidden gems" that we heard about from the locals.  Keith Hills was a course they always talked about.  Eventually we went there to check it out and we all really liked it. 

We played there once or twice a year for ten years.  Some years later I discovered an almost cult following of Richmonders that went there annually.  I must know 25 or 30 people who still go there and play. 

Solid golf course, very fun to play, and always (back then anyway) in better-than-most condition.  Not sure how it would fit in your eyes, but at the time, we thought we had the best kept secret in North Carolina.

Lester

[Sean_A]

For folks on this site, for sure, the one I would list first and foremost is Kington.  Others that come to mind

Cavendish
Castletown
Northamptonshire Co
Camberley Heath
Hockley
Knole Park
Stoneham
Prestbury
Whittington Heath
Edgbaston
Delamere Forest
Harborne
Berhamsted
Blackwell
Oxford
Tenby
Sherwood Forest
Perranporth


Ciao

[Jim_Kennedy]

Malone GC, Malone NY, now a 36 hole facility. 

The East Course (Par 72) has a dynamite front nine originally designed by Donald Ross and Willard G Wilkinson in the 1930s. A 1991 Golf Week Magazine article (by Brad Klein) rated it the "Best Pure Classic Nine" in the world and said it "includes a fabulous Redan, a roller coaster short par-five, and pure-links style bunkering".

[Jeff Spittel]

I've sung their praises before, but there are more than a few hidden gems near where I grew up in NJ:

Shackamaxon (AWT)
Echo Lake (Ross)
Suburban GC (AWT)
Hackensack GC (Banks)

[Paul Dolton]

I always think Sutton Coldfield gets overlooked, perhaps being so close to Little Aston and The Belfry.
Others i would mention are Crowborough Beacon, Hayling Island ,Southerdown and The Isle of Purbeck.

[Bill Crane]

Have not played it in a really long time, but I have always thought that Manasquan River in Brielle NJ was the most under-rated course in the state, and to a certain extent overlooked. Some great golfers there including the Housens.

With 12 holes up and down hilly terrain for the shore, and 6 flatter holes along the River, the layout is quite memorable.
Wonder if anyone else agrees with this view?

WmFlynnfan

[Paul Dolton]

For folks on this site, for sure, the one I would list first and foremost is Kington.  Others that come to mind

Cavendish
Castletown
Northamptonshire Co
Camberley Heath
Hockley
Knole Park
Stoneham
Prestbury
Whittington Heath
Edgbaston
Delamere Forest
Harborne
Berhamsted
Blackwell
Oxford
Tenby
Sherwood Forest
Perranporth


Ciao

Sean

Nice to see Oxford Golf Club mentioned.  Grew up playing there when it was Southfield. Its well worth a game if your in the area.

[Sven Nilsen]

Here's a course that I would bet has never been mentioned on this website:

Country Hills GC, Hendersonville, TN

Plays to 6,200 yards at a par of 70, with a rating of 71.8 and a slope of 123 (just inside Shivas' adjusted sweet spot).  Some interesting elevation, several holes with interesting choices regarding your angle into the green and a maintenance budget that guarantees the course is kept on the good side of the border of fast and firm and unplayable.  The par 4 13th plays a little like the 10th at High Pointe, with an uphill approach to a green cut into a crescent shaped outcropping of rock.  For a short course, the par 3's are a good test measuring from 162 on the short end up to 200 at the longest.

Its not going to make any kind of ranking, but I dare anyone to play it and not have a good time.

Sven

[Lester George]

Cavalier Golf &Yacht Club in Virginia Beach.  Charles Banks original restored 2003.  Flys under the radar, but most interesting and fun. 

Lester

[Michael George]

Is there a golf course that is truly spectacular but lacks the maintenance and conditioning and therefore is not top 100 in some magazines or is terribly overlooked?

I understand that a lot of people think Yale could be top 20 in the US in all of the magazines if the conditioning was better.  Don't know how overlooked Yale is, but you get the drift. 

[Mac Plumart]

I am struggling a bit with the overlooked/underappreciated differentiation.  Can someone tell me the differences they see in the use of these two terms?

Also, rather than pound out name after name, we should ask ourselves the question, "Is the course I'm going to name better than any one of the following?"...Why or why not?

Canyata
Eagle Pointe
Sahalee
Rich Harvest Links
The Quarry at La Quinta
Flint Hills
Hudson National
Pikewood National
Pete Dye French Lick
Grandfather
Nanea
Trump International
Torrey Pines
Caves Valley
Bellerive
Mauna Kea

As these are the courses that are considered US Top 100 by only one of the Top 100 lists.

And like I said, I have not played Wine Valley, nor have I played many of the courses on the above list, BUT I do think Wine Valley might be better than a few of these courses.  And this is why I asked this question.  I'm not making certain statements, rather asking for discussion on the matter.

[Sean_A]

I always think Sutton Coldfield gets overlooked, perhaps being so close to Little Aston and The Belfry.
Others i would mention are Crowborough Beacon, Hayling Island ,Southerdown and The Isle of Purbeck.

I have already been told by an ex-member that I am on thin ice for much preferring the winter course to the normal Sutton Coldfield.  Its easy to see why the summer version is over-looked as its choked by trees and rough.

Ciao

[Phil McDade]

I am struggling a bit with the overlooked/underappreciated differentiation.  Can someone tell me the differences they see in the use of these two terms?

Mac:

To me, overlooked is akin to Crystal Downs pre-Confidential Guide, or Machrihanish up until 15 years or so ago, or even Shinnecock Hills prior to it being named to host the 1986 U.S. Open -- courses that, yes, a few people in the know may have played or heard about, but a nearly undiscovered course of considerable merit. Under-appreciated is a course that (in my mind) has stood the test of time as a course with considerable architectural merit and interest, perhaps with even a well-known designer, but for a variety of reasons (low-key club, remote geography, too many other really good courses nearby) fails to get its due, be it on "top-whatever" lists or a place that golf architecture nuts might seek out to play.

It may be, as Tom suggests, that in this day and age of information overload, there may not be a Doak 7 or better that's overlooked. But I think there are plenty of under-appreciated courses; here in Wisconsin, Lawsonia Links -- one of the very best courses in the state in terms of architectural interest and variety -- is under-appreciated, not necessarily overlooked. Spring Valley, another Langford in Wisconsin, may very well be over-looked, although I don't think it's a Doak 7.

[Mac Plumart]

Thanks, Phil.  

I guess we could ask a follow up on why some courses are under-appreciated.  Perhaps there are others of its kind, perhaps there are other "giants" dwarfing them in their neighborhood?  Anything else you can think of?

I really do disagree, respectfully so, that there aren't Doak 7's (or better) out there that people are overlooking or underappreciating.  And for those like me that don't have these definitions memorized, a Doak 7 is an excellent course, worth checking out if you are within 100 miles.  You can expect to find soundly designed, interesting holes, good course conditioning, and a pretty setting, if not necessarily anything unique to the world of golf.

Right now, Rock Creek and Kingsley are not Top 100 in Golf Digest or Golf Magazine.  In my mind, they qualify as under-appreciated and/or over-looked by that measure...especially given the list that I put out previously of Top 100 courses in those magazines.

Also, I think globally there just might be some others.  In fact, I'm sure there are...I just need to find them.  

[Mark Steffey]

Indiana CC in Indiana, PA
Willie Park Jr. - listed architect.

wonderful matchplay golf course.
the 9th green is probably my favorite green on earth to both hit an approach onto and to putt.

[Will Lozier]

Brian Schneider told me I had to see Glens Falls CC, which I'd never heard anyone mention, either.

Tom,

I took my PAT up the road from Glens Falls CC.  Drove 2 1/2 hours from Burlington, VT in pouring rain, it basically stopped when I pulled into the lot, and proceeded to shoot 74-76 to medal and pass on my first attempt.  I was so stoked I headed into town to grab some dinner before turning north but never made it.  I drove by Glens Falls and had to poke around for almost an hour!  Lots of really interesting land movement - mostly pretty extreme with some great looking greensites.  I never made it down to play it but I might try when my wife and 21-month-old head back to southern VT for a month or R&R.  AHHH...the summer of a teacher!

And please...if you get anywhere near Springfield, OH, check out Ross' Springfield CC.  They are in the midst of some good bunker restoration having reclaimed original green dimensions a few years back.  And, you can check out the back nine at Urbana CC.

Cheers

[Will Lozier]

Also, I think due to sheer volume, there are some overlooked Ross courses. I know of Brookside in Ohio, which only Golfweek has gotten right. Also, continue to hear great things about courses like Essex, White Bear Yacht Club, Northland and Monroe.

Michael,

Tough to say Brookside is overlooked when it just hosted the U.S. Women's Am!

I think that Springfield CC (Ross) - my "home" course - is vastly underrated but when the USGA continues to use it as a Final U.S. Open Qualifying Venue, it is tough to make the argument that it is overlooked.  Underappreciated, certainly!

Cheers

Will,

I believe you're thinking of The Counrty Club in Pepper Pike. They just hosted the women's Am last year. I don't believe Canton Brookside has hosted a USGA even.

Bill,

You are right!  My mistake.  I've been meaning to ask my father's best friend - "Uncle Ted" - who is a member to get me out which he said he'll be glad to do if I can just get up to Canton from Springfield.  I've seen lots of pics of the restoration and Brookside looks to me to be as good as anything in my home state...which says a lot!  Thanks for setting straight!

Cheers

[Will MacEwen]

In Canada, I would say Montebello.  The strange thing is the Ottawa area isn't the greatest for golf, and it still flies under the national radar.

[Pete Balzer]

Prairie Club Dunes

[Scott Weersing]

Cavalier Golf &Yacht Club in Virginia Beach.  Charles Banks original restored 2003.  Flys under the radar, but most interesting and fun. 

Lester

I was trying to think of courses that fly under the radar and I would agree this is one. It often gets overlooked because it is a par 69. But it has a great set of holes and routing.

I would say Mid Pines, NC is another that flys under the radar but that is because it is in Pinehurst and you can't have too many ranked courses in one area.

Another one would be Farmington CC. I had never heard of it until Ran added to the list.

[Phil McDade]

Another one would be Farmington CC. I had never heard of it until Ran added to the list.

Scott (and Mac): I really good example of -- in my mind of the definition -- an overlooked course. I'd never heard of Farmington, either, and it's overlooked for many of the reasons I think make for an overlooked course: a little-known architect, located in a state with few truly great courses, with a low-key membership.

[Matthew MacKay]

Columbia CC (DC area)
Kahkwa Club (Erie, PA)
Winchester (Boston)
Forsgate (NJ)
Allegheny (PA) - great work by Gil Hanse here...the two 9's are VERY different
Monroe (Rochester)
Chechesee Creek (SC)
Crag Burn (Buffalo)
Indianwood Old

These next ones I'm not sure are 'overlooked' but I am surprised they don't get more national attention...Sleepy Hollow, Cal Club, Eastward Ho!

For Canada, I agree with Montebello. I'd add Kawartha as probably the most overlooked course in the country. Sarnia GCC is a good, solid course that gets absolutely no attention.