Overlooked Courses

[Mac Plumart]

I know Crystal Downs was overlooked for years and now is firmly planted as one of the top courses in the world. 

I've heard it said many times that with today's technology that this type of thing will never happen again...that is overlooking quality golf courses for extended periods of time.  I think this is incorrect.

I think human nature lends itself to over and under-appreciating things all the time.  And I think golf courses are no exception.

I'll offer Wine Valley as a course that is overlooked.  I've never played it.  But I keep looking at the photos and studying up on it.  I believe if it was built by Mackenzie it would be a Top 50 courses in the U.S.

Here are some photos and thoughts...

http://onegolferstravels.blogspot.ca/2012/04/wine-valley-golf-club-course-review.html

Comments?

[Mark Saltzman]

Mac, I was going to say Wine Valley.

How about Engineers?

[Wade Schueneman]

What about Eastward Ho?  It should be noted that a renovation played a key role there.

[Phil McDade]

Mac:

A bit off-topic, but I hope folks here (and esp. Ran and Ben ) click on the link you provided for Wine Valley to see what proper width in sizing can do to make a photo thread that much better. The photos on the thread are 12" wide, compared to the 7" or so featured here on GCA.

To me, there's a difference between overlooked and under-appreciated. Crystal Downs (and maybe Ballybunion prior to Watson's famous visit, and Machrihanish prior to Bamberger's book) were over-looked, in the sense that very few people in golf knew about them; Wine Valley (and Engineers) may be under-appreciated.

[Paul Jones]

Lookout Mountain

[Mark Bourgeois]

I know Crystal Downs was overlooked for years and now is firmly planted as one of the top courses in the world. 

I've heard it said many times that with today's technology that this type of thing will never happen again...that is overlooking quality golf courses for extended periods of time.  I think this is incorrect.

I think human nature lends itself to over and under-appreciating things all the time.  And I think golf courses are no exception.

I'll offer Wine Valley as a course that is overlooked.  I've never played it.  But I keep looking at the photos and studying up on it.  I believe if it was built by Mackenzie it would be a Top 50 courses in the U.S.

Here are some photos and thoughts...

http://onegolferstravels.blogspot.ca/2012/04/wine-valley-golf-club-course-review.html

Comments?

Phil's under/over appreciated angle is more interesting to me than the overlooked angle. Are you asking really just how tastes and preferences could change, and which courses could swing into favor as a result? A ball rollback also could trigger a seismic realignment of perceptions.

[Will Lozier]

Mac,

I've thought too that WV looked like a wonderful golf course from GCA.com threads.  I would say that there appear to be an inordinate number of greenside ponds for the environment - don't know if they are natural or not - and a lack of uniqueness to many holes which, for me, would find it not quite at "great" status for me and, even if Dr. AM were to have designed it, Top 50 seems a stretch.  Having never heard of the place prior to a few months ago, I do agree with your general statement that WV seems to be very much underappreciated and perhaps underrated.  But, I would argue that achieving a place in any official ranking wouldn't mean much except maybe more business...which it probably deserves!

I would also note that The Confidential Guide has a lot to do with there being fewer total hidden gems as TD scoured the earth very successfully for the most interesting tracks and discovered the vast majority!

Cheers

[Tommy Williamsen]

I'm not sure a course  like Crystal Downs was over looked as much as it did not get much publicity.  People in the know certainly knew about it.  I knew about it in the 70's.  Some courses just don't want much notoriety. A friend of mine is the GM of a very private club in FLorida and wishes no one knew about it.
So I guess some courses are not overlooked as much as they are not widely known.

[jim_lewis]

Prior to the last decade Yeoman's Hall and Mountain Lake were not widely known. Aiken Golf Club just started getting some recognition in the past few years. All three are very old courses.  Even in NC, Old Town is still not widely known. Cherokee Plantation is still known only by a few, mainly because it is super private.

[Ronald Montesano]

If Old Town is overlooked, what about its cross-town neighbor, the Donald Ross-designed Forsyth CC? I'm in the Mac brigade, in that I've not played it, but it is renovating/restoring as I type.

[Michael George]

Mac - great question. I do think there are plenty of overlooked courses. Mostly due to a lack of influence due to unknown architects. When  big name architects finish a course, it gets an immediate look.   Unknown architects in relatively remote places don't have this luxury.

A couple of courses that really intrigue me by pictures:

Sand Hollow in Utah, designed by John Fought.  
The Links of North Dakota, a Stephen Kay design.

Also, I think due to sheer volume, there are some overlooked Ross courses. I know of Brookside in Ohio, which only Golfweek has gotten right. Also, continue to hear great things about courses like Essex, White Bear Yacht Club, Northland and Monroe.

[Jason Thurman]

I'm sure there will be some overlooked courses that make waves in the future. I'm not sure if there's a course that will come from completely off the radar to surge into being a "Top 10" contender the way that I'm told Crystal Downs and NGLA did (I don't know much about the history of the rankings, but it seems like those two get talked about a lot for making sudden rises to prominence). I do figure, though, that there are some old courses out there just waiting for more rater or avid player visits to gain "Top 100 type" popularity.

I really wonder if there are courses that are just waiting for a great renovation. I've played a few decent courses that could be really good with a renovation. I don't think I've played a course that could vault to world-class status with one, but I'm sure some are out there and that some of the guys on this forum might have seen a few.

[JWL]

Spring Creek Ranch
Collierville, TN

[Mark_Rowlinson]

I can't say that I know of any British courses which are currently under-rated but may, one day, be elevated to world top 100 status when it pops its head over the parapet. But it set me thinking about courses which are still below the radar for the average golfer, although well-known to all on this site. New Zealand, Huntercombe, The Addington would be no more than names in the R and A Handbook to most golfers in the north. In the London area I don't suppose many non-GCA golfers know about Berwick-on-Tweed, Seaton Carew or Wallasey, or understand why Silloth-on-Solway gets rated so highly in magazine top 200 lists.

[Cory Lewis]

I will continue to champion Hope Valley as an overlooked Ross course.  IMO it's as good or better then any of the top Ross courses in NC.

[Carl Rogers]

I am hoping that the new Confidential Guide will cover this topic.

[Tom_Doak]

I am hoping that the new Confidential Guide will cover this topic.

I am hoping so, too.  I've covered several of the courses mentioned above, already.

Like the "best player never to win a major", there is always going to be a "best course not in the rankings", but none of them are likely to be as good as Crystal Downs.  There are 7's that I don't know of ... and maybe somewhere there's an 8.  If there's a 10, it's overlooked because it isn't actually built yet.

Still, we've come a long way.  I remember when I was traveling in the early 80's how few people had gotten to some of these places. Walter Woods, the head greenkeeper at St. Andrews for many years (and a fine player), told me when I was going to Dornoch, "I hear it's very good."  He had never made the six-hour drive!  I heard that phrase a lot back then.

[Lou Cutolo]

Fenway Golf Club
Scarsdale, NY

[Sean Leary]

Indianwood?

[Steve Lapper]

Paramount CC, New City NY

Post Jim Urbina full restoration

[Will Lozier]

Also, I think due to sheer volume, there are some overlooked Ross courses. I know of Brookside in Ohio, which only Golfweek has gotten right. Also, continue to hear great things about courses like Essex, White Bear Yacht Club, Northland and Monroe.

Michael,

Tough to say Brookside is overlooked when it just hosted the U.S. Women's Am!

I think that Springfield CC (Ross) - my "home" course - is vastly underrated but when the USGA continues to use it as a Final U.S. Open Qualifying Venue, it is tough to make the argument that it is overlooked.  Underappreciated, certainly!


Cheers

[Mark Pritchett]

Spring Creek Ranch
Collierville, TN

Agreed, hopefully more people will make the trip to Memphis to see it.  I would go back just to play the 14th hole again, a great Par 5.

[JMEvensky]

Spring Creek Ranch
Collierville, TN

Agreed, hopefully more people will make the trip to Memphis to see it.  I would go back just to play the 14th hole again, a great Par 5.

You didn't like 7?

[Mark McKeever]

Some highlights from the past year or two..

Morris County GC
Eastward Ho! GC
Schuylkill CC*


Mark


Homer Disclaimer*

[Bill McKinley]

Also, I think due to sheer volume, there are some overlooked Ross courses. I know of Brookside in Ohio, which only Golfweek has gotten right. Also, continue to hear great things about courses like Essex, White Bear Yacht Club, Northland and Monroe.

Michael,

Tough to say Brookside is overlooked when it just hosted the U.S. Women's Am!

I think that Springfield CC (Ross) - my "home" course - is vastly underrated but when the USGA continues to use it as a Final U.S. Open Qualifying Venue, it is tough to make the argument that it is overlooked.  Underappreciated, certainly!


Cheers

Will,

I believe you're thinking of The Counrty Club in Pepper Pike. They just hosted the women's Am last year. I don't believe Canton Brookside has hosted a USGA event