Dickinson's Westward Ho! (Royal North Devon)

[Garland Bayley]

...
My Dad and brother would probably be happier at a place with wild, crazy movement with big dunes that hit you over the head with interest.  To them, a more subtle golf course might get boring.

In that case have you seen Perranporth?

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,51587.0.html

[Garland Bayley]

Here are some additional pictures I picked up from Pete Lavallee at King's Putter. I have integrated the picture of the tee shot on 4 and the picture of 5 into the Dickinson essay at the beginning of the thread. I hope I have located the proper description of each picture. If not, please let me know.

4 Tee shot

PLharddrivepics1432_zps9de28592 on Flickr

4 green

on Flickr

5 green

[url=https://flic.kr/p/YZwPNf]PLharddrivepics1434_zpsad3c57d2 on Flickr

6 fairway bunker

PLharddrivepics1435_zpse230c6dd on Flickr

7 green

PLharddrivepics1436_zps85744649 on Flickr

8 green

PLharddrivepics1437_zps10a84e6b on Flickr

sheep, or bunker creation in progress

PLharddrivepics1438_zps53e60a03 on Flickr

11 green

PLharddrivepics1439_zpsf060acee on Flickr

13 green

PLharddrivepics1440_zps27186e53 on Flickr

16 green

PLharddrivepics1441_zps28593ab9 on Flickr

18 green and clubhouse

PLharddrivepics1442_zps2e13ec81 on Flickr

[Thomas Dai]

Just been revisiting this excellent thread to see what other folks heading to RND/WH! will be playing and I'll be missing on 13th Sept. Peeved is the word.

Nice to also revisit this terrific RND/WH! video by Tommy - http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=FFcfTNfUnfw

atb

[Mark Bourgeois]

Thomas

I am barred by Sean Arble from posting in depth about RND; however, if the others are playing just one or even two rounds I would not worry they are getting much from it. Certainly not enough to peeve the zero-rounder.  

Helpfully,

[Pete Lavallee]

Mark,

I founf RND about the most difficult golfcourse to to putt on that I have ever played! The apparent complete lack of top dressing makes what I would call "thirty greens within the green"; there is sooo much variation within each green. There is no homogeneous slope you can count on for each putting surface. It defends par better that the critters and the wind!

[Tommy Williamsen]

Thomas

I am barred by Sean Arble from posting in depth about RCD; however, if the others are playing just one or even two rounds I would not worry they are getting much from it. Certainly not enough to peeve the zero-rounder. 

Helpfully,

Thankfully Sean hasn't barred me yet. It is a pretty special place.  I had one of my more memorable days there a few years ago. It was about 50 degrees and blowing.  Not a great day for the masses, especially since it was in September.  Hardly anyone was on the course.  I had just turned 60 and wanted to walk 60 holes. I played 65. It was great.

[Wayne_Kozun]

Thankfully Sean hasn't barred me yet. It is a pretty special place.  I had one of my more memorable days there a few years ago. It was about 50 degrees and blowing.  Celsius or Fahrenheit?

[Mark Bourgeois]

Pete and Tommy,

No. This course is flat, boggy and boring. It's just a field, a piece of mess.  Also, it's overrun with ball-eating spiky plant things.

Other than to see the clubhouse, a museum-type situation, nobody should visit it ever, certainly not Americans, especially when a fantastic, bucking and heaving course like St Enodoc is just down the road. St Enodoc has a church. Westward Ho! doesn't have a church.

[Tony_Muldoon]

So on Sat the last 6 of the Buda contingent rolled on to Westward HO.  

And frankly I’m not sure what to make of it.  I wasn’t terribly impressed by the course while playing it and some of that must have been due to the two places we’d just been to.  However as I look back I realise I hadn’t figured it out at all.   In a light to medium wind with very firm fairways, surrounds and greens I rarely got my ball close to the hole in regulation.  Normally not scoring to well doesn't bother me, I could have put it down to tiredness but we were in a Competition!  Lots of room off the tee and firm and fast on a pleasant day, why wouldn't the ball drop? On no 2 I had a 6i from the left rough, it bounced twice in the fairway and then ran straight through the green up the side of the third tee. I didn't learn from that?  And the holes in the Reeds are a new kind of hazard, not so much blind as spooky!

My reassessment started the next day when discussing it with the assistant pro at B&B.  He argued that it was very subtle.  So I resolve to go back, but it just doesn’t have the same pull as the other two.

[Garland Bayley]

I loved RND, except for the rushes. It seems the sea rushes have a special orange golf ball attractors. I thought going in that I would be able to hit my standard safe 5 wood off the tee for a straight, safe result when the rushes were in play. Unfortunately, they had enough butt pucker power to get me to hit into them repeatedly. The rest of the course I played quite well including a birdie on 1 while executing exactly the preplanned strategy to a T. Should have had a birdie on 13 too, as I was just off the green in two. But, as many of you know, putting up onto that surface is not that easy.

[Bryan Izatt]

Tony,

And frankly I’m not sure what to make of it.  I wasn’t terribly impressed by the course while playing it and some of that must have been due to the two places we’d just been to.  However as I look back I realise I hadn’t figured it out at all.   In a light to medium wind with very firm fairways, surrounds and greens I rarely got my ball close to the hole in regulation.  Normally not scoring to well doesn't bother me, I could have put it down to tiredness but we were in a Competition!  Lots of room off the tee and firm and fast on a pleasant day, why wouldn't the ball drop?

Well said.  My experience was very similar.  I was not inspired by the opening two holes or the closing two either.  The rushes holes also did not resonate with me. Perhaps it was the relative lack of elevation change - although there was some pretty nice micro undulation.  Subtlety and simplicity may well describe the course, but there would need to be more to pull me back.

Of the eight courses we played on this trip, I would put this one at the bottom, which isn't so bad.  If I ever get back to this area, Westward Ho! won't be on my list of places to revisit to try and figure it out.

In a positive sense, the competition (and its' price) was a fun way to experience the course and the lamb roast dinner they made for us afterward was very good.  As for the competition, we started with a pair of birdies (gross) on the 1st and then struggled to score on our way to a respectable Stableford score of 71.  Sadly, that got us to be 35th out of 39.  At least we managed to finish ahead of the gentleman and three ladies playing behind us.    Apparently our handicaps didn't travel well.

I only managed one picture of the course and that was from the parking lot.  What drew my attention, apart from my playing partner, was the new back championship tee for the 1st hole which they stuck almost back in the parking lot.  It just looked silly to me.  Why bother? and, of course the multitude of players and spectators for the competition.  Strangely, they were all gone by the time we teed off.  Too bad for them that they missed seeing Lynn and Lou teeing off.

[Garland Bayley]

What did you guys think of #9 and #13? Tom Doak has put #9 on his list of "template" holes he would like to create versions of, and #13 seems unique in my experience as you can reach it in two, but you can't hold it in two, and still birdie is not guaranteed.

[ward peyronnin]

Unfortunately the greens absolutely sucked when we played there. Worst I have played anywhere all year and I was glad we got in on a "group" fee rate cause I would have felt somewhat cheated.

It is not a course I could play everyday. Also way too busy with cars, dogs, hang gliders, walkers, and other distractions.

[Bryan Izatt]

Ward,

I would just kindly say that the greens were not in the best knick for this competition.


Garland,

Re #9, that's why Tom gets paid the big bucks - he sees things that most of the rest of us don't.  I liked the hole although as a first time player without a yardage book, I missed the point of driving up the right side. I happened to hit it there anyway.  The hole was slightly too long for any of us to reach it in two.  Iirc, Lynn tried to carry the bunker on the third shot from the middle of the fairway.  Lou and I were in the moguls to the right.  Lou tried to fly it to the flag and I tried bumping it through the moguls.  I don't recall any of us being very successful.  Certainly no birdies. 

In retrospect, it was a fun hole because there was the hope of a good score without too much apparent risk, but the hope was taken away by the bunker, green and moguls.  It's a hole that, if I played it again, I would still have hope that I could make birdie - that hope would most likely be dashed again.

Re #13, I just thought the green was kind of silly and tricked up for the sole purpose of protecting a 422 yard hole that purports to be a par 5.  It reminded me of inverted bowl greens on a goat track (not the famed Goat Hill) I played growing up - and not in a positive way.

[Garland Bayley]

I believe we played #9 and #13 in the wrong wind to see their strengths. If #9 were down wind, then reaching with the shot curving in from the right would be more feasible. I had so much wanted to use my low running cut (the one I used to get one up on Ben at St. Enodoc 17th) to approach #9, but had made a complete mess of the hole and was out of it before even getting close.

Ward,

Remember that we played there on a Saturday. Come back Monday and the distractions won't be there.
I played Pennard on both a Saturday, and a Monday, and the difference was remarkable.

[Thomas Dai]

Unfortunately the greens absolutely sucked when we played there. Worst I have played anywhere all year and I was glad we got in on a "group" fee rate cause I would have felt somewhat cheated.

One issue with courses on common land it that the golf club may not be permitted to have the little wire electrified or otherwise fences around the greens due to the specific conditions of the common land agreement in place. Sometimes fences may be allowed around all the greens, sometimes they may be allowed on a few greens, sometimes on no holes at all. Different locations, different rules. I'm not sure of the precise details of the commoners agreement to use the land at Westward Ho! for animal grazing but commoners agreements have been around in the UK for many more centuries than golf!

When fences are not permitted animals wonder onto the greens and as a consequence there are footprints and droppings on the greens. I understand however, that it is the animals urine that is the worse problem for it kills the grass on the greens. As  I mentioned above, I'm not sure of the Westward Ho! agreement but I believe in general terms this issue is most noticeable in the summer months for in the winter period animals are normally absent from common land.

atb

[Mark Bourgeois]

These comments do a great job of confirming my personal suspicions and judgments. Thanks to everyone for posting.

One question: Tony, why on earth were you in the left rough on 2? That fairway is miles wide. Miles wide. (Not that it matters: there's hardly any 'rough' to speak of.) And very surprised you were unable to score well. It is not hard for any class of player -- personal bests should be on offer even for first-time visitors. Ward's comments notwithstanding the flat, uninteresting greens are "point and click." Plus as everyone has said you rack up -4 if not better just on the opening and closing 2 holes.

[Garland Bayley]

I have finished updating the photos I have that I have moved from photobucket to flickr now that I have returned from my trip to Australia. For those of you in Australia, don't get up in arms. I spent only about 12 hours in Australia. The key words there was TO. For those who missed it and wants to see a more polished review see Ran's recent review.
http://golfclubatlas.com/courses-by-country/england/royal-north-devon/

[Thomas Dai]

Thanks for the updating Garland.
I was at WH! a short while ago and loved it.
Fantastic memorabilia in the Clubhouse and then the course.....wow!
I can understand some not liking it, but not me. I thought it wonderful - I even enjoyed the ‘flat’ holes and the semi-blind ones amongst the sharp ended sea rushes. A whole bunch of fine holes, even the lessor ones, and others maybe great, certainly quite unique. Good conditioning too. I liked the routing as well given the terrain and the common land factors. Overall a truly memorable experience. A real golfing and historical education. Can’t wait to return.
Atb

[Marty Bonnar]

Not great news today:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-42786519

[Thomas Dai]

Sad indeed - https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bJs1fv2aCCw
Special and very memorable place. Unique.
All the best to RND for whatever recovery is possible.
Not the first time though - [size=78%]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-m5ZuFumaFs[/size]
Powerful thing nature.
Atb

[Sean_A]

Jeepers...just the other week I was looking at RND on the map and wondering how that spit of land has survived.  You can literally see how the water is cutting down the land as the sea flows into the estuary.  Right now that spit looks like the head of a bird...I can see a day when a bad storm mixed with high tide separates the head and about seven holes.


Ciao

[Jon Wiggett]

Certainly not good but maybe the landfill will prove to be a saviour for the club as the local authority cannot allow it to be overrun by the sea.

[Tommy Williamsen]

I was an overseas member there for many years back a dozen years ago. I have played over fifty rounds at the course. It is one of the special places. Number eight is one of those holes that grows on you. I played it at about 180 yards and found it to be a difficult green to  hit and I never grumbled about making par. The year I joined I heard about the sea breaching the pebble ridge and the lub was working with the authorities even then to try and mitigate the damage they knew was coming. It appears all that energy was wasted on short sighted officials. Fortunately there is land that can be used to move the holes. Seven, however, would be much less interesting but eight could be configured to be a decent hole. I wonder if they would have to move the ninth tee at all to accommodate a hole of similar length.

[Thomas Dai]

Drone flyovers of holes 7 & 8 from the clubs website may aid in the understanding of where the erosion has taken place.


Hole 7 - https://www.royalnorthdevongolfclub.co.uk/hole_7


Hole 8 - https://www.royalnorthdevongolfclub.co.uk/hole_8

And a colourised photo of how things used to be.


atb