BRORA

[Sean_A]

I was trolling around golf sites recently and noticed Brora is looking for members.  What is going on?  The price is right, well under £400pa.  The course is good.  The scenery is lovely. 

Is there an issue with the course or is this purely about the economy? 

Ciao

[Ally Mcintosh]

Sean,

I would have thought that currently there are very few clubs throughout Britain and Ireland that aren't openly looking for members - only the traditional ones.

Put it this way, The Island (which is as we know an excellent course near a major capital population base) has been on an active advertising campaign and dropping its prices for the last couple of years.

[jeffwarne]

I was trolling around golf sites recently and noticed Brora is looking for members.  What is going on?  The price is right, well under £400pa.  The course is good.  The scenery is lovely. 

Is there an issue with the course or is this purely about the economy? 

Ciao

Sean,
Brora is one of my favorite courses on earth , period.
that said, most people don't share our taste and there are multiple other good courses in that area, and not a real large supporting population.
No doubt with nearby additions such as Castle Stuart,  the improvements at the Struie, Skibo Castle, and the slight nearer proximity of Golspie, they're facing some stiff competition for the golfer seeking an extra round or two other than the "main" attraction, Dornoch.
So reduced visitor revenue, combined with the down economy, leave room and demand for more members.
I'm sure there's no issue with the course, but rather with the tastes of the consumers.......

[Sean_A]

Ally - isn't The Island hopelessly expensive anyway?  I don't recall the subs/initiation, but I was shocked when you posted it a while back. 

Jeff - I think only Castle Stuart has come on line in recent years and its not a members club - is it?  So far as I know, nothing else has changed with golfing landscape in Brora's neighbourhood.  I could possibly see folks joining The Struie instead, not because the course is anywhere near the same class as Brora, but for the temptation of an eventual Dornoch membership and the bennies while waiting for the membership.  I spose the waitlist has reduced a bit to make this a reasonable reality in the short term. 

Ciao

[jeffwarne]

Sean,
If their visitor revenue is down, which could be caused by nearby, newer, flashier competition, they would need more members(and would have more room for members), or some other way of raising more revenue.

[Ally Mcintosh]

Yes Sean, the Island is very expensive (as are most clubs in Ireland).

Scotland is much cheaper. To give an example closer to Brora, Cruden Bay was running at under £400 a year and actively looking for members last time I checked.

[Martin Toal]

Yes Sean, the Island is very expensive (as are most clubs in Ireland).

Island website says membership is 7500 Euro joining fee and 1500 plus levies a year.

[Sean_A]

Ally - While its more expensive, I am surprised about Cruden Bay as well - moreso than Brora.  Mind you, for the country membership, paying £600 for the first year isn't going to garner much interest unless on lives as close as 50 or so miles away.  

Jeff - usually clubs have max numbers as stated in the constitution/bye laws.  I wouldn't have thought the club would raise that number unless capital was needed and the club knew it was fairly easy and cheap to fill the spots.  There is no joining fee now and dues are cheap - not a great time to increase membership to off-set loss of visitor fee revenue if indeed visitors are down.  It would be better to invest in getting more visitors rather than increasing a cheaply had membership- no?

Island website says membership is 7500 Euro joining fee and 1500 plus levies a year. Zowie!

Ciao

[Simon Holt]

I've not been on their site but does it say people can get straight in?  

Our waiting list is down to 4 years now (a few years ago it was 8 years, before that the waiting list was closed!) but we are being actively encouraged to propose people for membership.  The club is being prudent by bulking up the waiting list now, in case the economy takes another nose dive and the list gets any smaller.

Fortunately, we have had a mild winter so many of the senior members are still with us!!

[Ally Mcintosh]

Island website says membership is 7500 Euro joining fee and 1500 plus levies a year. Zowie!

Portmarnock is north of 15K joining and about 1800 a year for 7 day...Tralee 8K joining (which they are still easily getting) and 600 per year...

Brian - those aren't the right figures for Portmarnock (which incidentally must be the only club in Ireland with fees heading up rather than down)

That figure for The Island has come down from €20k entrance.

But Scotland is very different, Sean. I don't see anything unusual in Brora looking for members. Were they even full to constitution numbers?

[David_Tepper]

Sean -

Given the remote location and the small population base, my sense is the golf clubs in the Highlands have always been looking for members. The current state of the Britsih economy has not helped the situation.

DT

[Mark Chaplin]

I thought the opening of Castle Stuart would be beneficial to golf in the far north??

They were using the same argument at Trump, if other clubs suffer then the "benefits" as a whole may not really exist.

[David_Tepper]

Mark Chaplin -

The opening of Castle Stuart has been beneficial to golf in the Highlands. While I hate to resort to "economist speak," the macro of the British/global economy is overwhelming the micro of golf tourism in the Highlands.

DT

[Niall C]

Sean

This is about the economy and about the demographics. Overall their are fewer club memberships due entirely to the economy and then within that you have a limited membership base for somewhere like Brora. If you assume a half hour drive time then there's really not that much of a population around to provide the members.

Castle Stuart isn't a factor. Not only is it well outside the catchment area for Brora but it's also an upmarket pay and play. You don't give up unlimited golf for £400 pa for the opportunity to play another course for £50 to £90 a round.

With regards other clubs, its been like this for the last couple of years. I doubt there's a club in Moray (possible exception of Elgin) that isn't doing a deal right now. Elsewhere in the Highlands it will be the same. A couple of years ago I joined a club thats got two courses, one of which is as good if not better than Brora, and I paid £250 as joining fee and subs for the remainder of the year (9 months). If you shop around you can also get on many of these courses as a visitor for c. £10 to £20. Thats probably a lot more of a hinderance to memberships than Castle AStuart ever will be.

Niall

[Mark Chaplin]

David - so visitor revenue is rising at Brora but they can still take more members?

 Niall - of course members wouldn't leave to play CS, but CS could be taking vital visitor income, thereby forcing a club to take more members.

[David_Tepper]

"David - so visitor revenue is rising at Brora but they can still take more members?"

Mark -

Yes.

DT

[David Kelly]

Who isn't looking for members? 

Royal Dornoch says on their website that they are always looking for members: http://www.royaldornoch.com/uploads/membershp2012.pdf

[Sean_A]

I guess I never fully appreciated the tenuous existence of remote golf in Scotland.  I just took it for granted that these clubs are well supported. 

David - so am I to understand that Brora is healthy?  If so, I wonder why the desire for more members?

Ciao

[David_Tepper]

"David - so am I to understand that Brora is healthy?  If so, I wonder why the desire for more members?"

Sean A. (and Mark C.) -

Since I am not a member at Brora, I cannot comment specifically on the situation there. I doubt the situation is "unhealthy."   As I stated above, I think all the golf clubs in the Highlands (and the majority of clubs elsewhere in Britain) would be very happy to grow their membership by 10% to 20%.

The fact of the matter is 1) many of the golf clubs in the Highlands operate on very thin budgets and are lucky to break even in any given year, 2) many of these golf courses sit with open teetimes for several hours each day and could easily accommodate additional play without the course becoming at all crowded and 3) the cost of operating a golf club increases relentless each year.

My guess is many of the remote clubs in Britain have lost a number of their Country Members in recent years. Each year, some percentage of Country Members realize that they have not been to their "holiday" club in 3 or 4 or 5 years and it just does not make sense to renew for the coming year. The current economic climate and the aging of club memberships contributes to this as well.

DT    

  

[Jon Wiggett]

Sean,

it is as already said to do with the location being so far north. You can get a winter membership (Nov-end of march) for £60 at Reay which is a cracking deal. I think you will find that Brora has never had a waiting list. Tain is even cheaper and Dornoch is not much more if you can get in.

Jeff,

I don't think CS has had anything but a positive effect on GF numbers up here. Brora is not looking for new members because of a drop in GF revenue. It has always looked for them.

Jon

[jeffwarne]

Sean,

it is as already said to do with the location being so far north. You can get a winter membership (Nov-end of march) for £60 at Reay which is a cracking deal. I think you will find that Brora has never had a waiting list. Tain is even cheaper and Dornoch is not much more if you can get in.

Jeff,

I don't think CS has had anything but a positive effect on GF numbers up here. Brora is not looking for new members because of a drop in GF revenue. It has always looked for them.

Jon

Good to hear Jon.

[David_Tepper]

Don't forget that Brora has a population of roughly 1,200 people, in a county (Sutherland) that has a population of less than 20,000. The current population of Sutherland is at least 20% smaller than it was 150 years ago! Unless I am mistaken, Sutherland is the least densely populated county in Britain.

Country Memberships are very important to a club like Brora, as they are at Dornoch, and I suspect that is where the club would like to  grow its membership roll.

[Wayne_Kozun]

Don't forget that Brora has a population of roughly 1,200 people, in a county (Sutherland) that has a population of less than 20,000. The current population of Sutherland is at least 20% smaller than it was 150 years ago!

What was it 100 years before that?  It is hard to grow the population when the toffs ship the people off to the New World to make more room for the sheep as Rube wrote about in A Season in Dornoch.

[Jon Wiggett]

Don't forget that Brora has a population of roughly 1,200 people,

Wow, is it that many.

Jon

[Kris Shreiner]

As others have cited, Brora is: remote, with an aging population, in an area that economically struggles a wee bit, and is also missed by a fair few that go up to play RD, especially the first-timer. That said, the warmth of the members and cool vibe one often feels in the club house certainly will continue to aid Brora as it strives to keep sound numbers of full members.

It IS a wonderful course and that should always attract golfers.There just needs to enough of them up there, and this remains a challenge given the limited job prospects for the region. That said, the answer is not to overbuild and permit every project that someone puts forward.There needs to be a prudent balance, otherwise it will lose what qualities currently make it such an attractive destination, be it to visit or reside.

Cheers,
Kris