Are men more interested in golf designers and architecture and if so why?

[Jay Flemma]

So I'm working on a piece for Ran about Devereux Emmet and a completely different issue suddenly arose, one that I might like to explore with all of you.

In the process of interviewing 100 people (two thirds of which were men) I found that, of the women I interviewed, they were much...MUCH less likely to care about architecture and designers than the men were.

Granted, 1) I wasn't looking into the issue of gender and architecture at all, 2) my polling sample was NYC-centric, and 3) this was a somewhat unscientific polling, but the results startled me.  The women I polled - public golfers, private course members, general sports fans who play a lot of golf, and TV golf fans, the men who knew Dev Emmet so dramatically outnumbered the men as to make it seem almost a statistical outlier. Late in the sampling I started asking the women if they cared about architects and designers at all and they were at absolute best lukewarm about the topic.  Some mentioned Pete Dye by name and a couple talked about Tillie, but the rest said it wasn't a consideration.

Then when you look at the gender breakdown here on GCA.com it appears remarkably heavy on males. (Or am I wrong?)

So it raises the question - are men far more interested in designers and architecture and if so, why?  Moreover, what can we do to increase female interest in the topic?

In an unrelated matter, if anyone would like to talk with me about thed Dev Emmet article, call me or drop me an IM and we'll catch up.  The piece is for Ran, Ben, and GCA.com

[Mike_Trenham]

Men are visually oriented.

[Wade Whitehead]

Is there a single female who posts often on GCA?

[Jay Flemma]

It depends on your definition of often, but there are a handful of regular contributors.

[Jason Walker]

Just a hunch, but may have something to do with the fact that most avid golfers are men.

[Adam Clayman]

Women golfer's usually only care about architecture when it precludes their inability to make the carries. Present company excepted.

I've even seen one clever vixen take all the boys money on the last par 3 of the course. She knows it will probably be the longest and hardest one shotter for the boys, but from the forward tees, and an easier angle, she cleans up. 

[Mike McGuire]

Not a surprise but the smart green chairman thats sells them will have an easy road.

[RJ_Daley]

Of the women I know that are regular golfers, many of them tend to be over 40, more like over 50.  You don't see many 20 something young ladies around the courses in any significant numbers, whether it is at private courses, or public, in my neck of the woods.  The only semi-regular women golfers seem to be the H.S. girls, or some college ladies.  Our Women's Tuesday league must have an average age of at least 50.  Many are teachers, or not working regular jobs or actually retired.  There are about 40 women in their Tuesday league, and near 200 members of Men's club. 

I can only think of a handful of the ladies at our club that call each other up and get a tee time together as a whim.  They just aren't wired to pursue golf on the same competitive basis that men seem to be.  They don't tend to have many betting games, nor is the friendly rivalry in their regular groups the same, from what I can tell.  I'm thinking that Adam's example of the sly vixen is probably golf's version of Annie Oakley, and she only exists in the wild west, probably smokes cigars, and plays a lot of 'hold-em'.  Not too common in the realm of lady golfers.

So, they aren't wired to compete, either against each other in the same way as we men, nor more to the point, against the golf course.  I think the men see the field of play as an opponent to conquer, and women just see a course as a place you have to go to in order to play the game. 

It must be tied up in the whole idea of male hunters and female gatherers, or whatever the ancient genetic soup has blended up in us.  Yes, women that play amateur USGA or State competitions may have a more active interest in the course design, but even at the higher pro levels, I don't think ladies of the LPGA are too apt to give a post round quote that deals with the course architecture, even when they are playing a significant course of GCA historical merit.  A few do, but a disproportionate few. 

[Bradley Anderson]

For what it's worth, I have a power point presentation on the history of golf course architecture and the one time that I gave it to a women's league they seemed very interested in the subject. In fact I felt it was easier to convey the concepts to a group of women.

I think that both men and women are wired to organize themselves into groups but women aren't as apt to do so unless it is for a cause. Maybe golf course architecture isn't enough of a cause for women to sympathize with?

[Ally Mcintosh]

Of the women I know that are regular golfers, many of them tend to be over 40, more like over 50.  You don't see many 20 something young ladies around the courses in any significant numbers, whether it is at private courses, or public, in my neck of the woods.  The only semi-regular women golfers seem to be the H.S. girls, or some college ladies.  Our Women's Tuesday league must have an average age of at least 50.  Many are teachers, or not working regular jobs or actually retired.  There are about 40 women in their Tuesday league, and near 200 members of Men's club. 

I can only think of a handful of the ladies at our club that call each other up and get a tee time together as a whim.  They just aren't wired to pursue golf on the same competitive basis that men seem to be.  They don't tend to have many betting games, nor is the friendly rivalry in their regular groups the same, from what I can tell.  I'm thinking that Adam's example of the sly vixen is probably golf's version of Annie Oakley, and she only exists in the wild west, probably smokes cigars, and plays a lot of 'hold-em'.  Not too common in the realm of lady golfers.

So, they aren't wired to compete, either against each other in the same way as we men, nor more to the point, against the golf course.  I think the men see the field of play as an opponent to conquer, and women just see a course as a place you have to go to in order to play the game. 

It must be tied up in the whole idea of male hunters and female gatherers, or whatever the ancient genetic soup has blended up in us.  Yes, women that play amateur USGA or State competitions may have a more active interest in the course design, but even at the higher pro levels, I don't think ladies of the LPGA are too apt to give a post round quote that deals with the course architecture, even when they are playing a significant course of GCA historical merit.  A few do, but a disproportionate few. 

Isn't this incredibly worrying?... If we don't start to focus on juniors and women a lot more than we do already, the sport will die a long and slow death?

However,

I was amazed when travelling around a few developing golf nations in Europe how many young girls and women were on the driving ranges. It was incredibly encouraging and not at all like my experience in the more developed countries such as Britain & Ireland.

Also there are quite a few young female golf architects based in Europe from Line Mortensen to Virginia Costa to others who graduated through the British or European Institute.... Virginia - for one - could have been a pro golfer but she was much more interested in the golf course than playing.

Not sure there is any evidence that women are "wired" differently to men with regards to architecture to be honest...

[cary lichtenstein]

I happen to know alot of women interested in both golf architecture and being on greens committees

[RJ_Daley]

It is interesting to hear from you posters with more international perspective what the level of lady participation in golf is, particularly in Asia.  Of course we all understand the interest and rise in Asian players pursuit of a career on the tour and futures tour, along with college players.  Whether the Asian ladies are actually beginning their golf in their home countries, or are Asian American women, it seems clear they are going after it in a more intense way.

I also am curious if my perception is correct that a women's scholarship to play golf at major golf team universities isn't the easiest sports free ride there is to obtain - men or women.  You'd think that alone would stimulate more participation.  And, along with more participation one would think more awareness of the architecture would just naturally follow.  But, it doesn't seem to me to be the case.

So, how long will it be before the early vanguard of Asian women players get more serious in their older age to become more active in course design and development?  Sei Ri Pak's class so to speak may turn to GCA.  Nancy Lopez did some player endorsement of design, but not many from the previous generations, as far as I know.  Yeah there was that flash by Marion Hollins so many decades ago at CPC, but other than Alice Dye, and to a much lesser extent, Jan Beljan, the women's participation just doesn't seem to be readily identifiable as a movement or force in GCA to any significant extent. 

If women are going to get more active in course design, I really do think it will come from the Asian contingent. 

[Greg Chambers]

My wife loves to play golf.  And she appreciates good architecture.  She knows it when she sees it.  She just doesn't feel the need to discuss it or analyze it once she's away from the golf course.

[Greg Gilson]

RJ Daley's 7 January post above pretty much synchs with my perspective on this.

My wife did not play as a child and took it up only after we married 15 or so years ago. She took to it well & got down to 4 handicap. Still plays off 6 desite having a real job. Has won several club chamionships at clubs in the US & Australia. She now works for the State Golf Association here in Australia. She has played all around the world including 50 thereabouts of any recent Golf Magazine World Top 100 list. The point is that she is "a golfer", she is invested in the sport and has seen some great courses.

I've never quizzed her but if i asked her to list some GCA's she'd probably get from The Great Doctor (we named our house Pasatiempo...and she knows why), to Tom Doak (she used to work at St Andrews Beach)via Pete Dye (just guessing)....but that's probably it.

She sort of knows what architectural features she dislikes (tufts of grass in bunkers!) but couldn't articulate any kind of position on the subject. She can remember most of the courses she's played but that will often be based on the quality of the golf shop stock or the hot dogs & pies....not the architectural features.

This (lack of) interest in the subject is matched if not exceeeded  by her female golf friends - including the low markers.

I'm not sure why this all is....but it "is". Its not just that there are fewer women golfers than men (there is). It's also that the % of women golfers at least moderately interested in GCA is much lower than the % of male golfers. The theories above all pretty much make sense to a greater or esser extent.