Greywalls vs Kingsley

[Bob_Garvelink]

Happy New Year!!!

I had the opportunity to play Kingsley last year and to date it was the best golf experience of my life.  I am looking forward to playing Greywalls this summer and am curious as to how similar these courses are in terms of overall "golf experience".  Kingsley is one of those courses you can play over and over and never get sick of it and when you are sitting on the 1st tee you get that special feeling.  Is Greywalls similar and if you had 10 rounds of golf to play how would it play out?  Also....I just looked on Greywalls website and their national member ship is $400.    Now that sounds like a deal!!!

[Sven Nilsen]

Bob:

I've played Kingsley roughly 10-15 times and have only 2 rounds at Greywalls.  I don't know if that affects my analysis in any way, other than I think I have a lot more to learn about Greywalls and thus an itch to get back up there to play it again.

The main difference in the courses is the severity of the site at GW.  Its a rugged course, certainly walkable but definitely a tougher trek than KC simply due to the overall elevation changes of the site. From a fun factor, the two courses are about as good as it gets.  You can play the ground game at both courses, with KC offering a bit more quirk in places while the prevailing theme at GW is negotiating the elevation changes. 

GW definitely offers a special feeling, but perhaps for different reasons than KC.  There's something about the scale of the course, the wide cascading fairways, the greens perched among outcroppings of rock, the views over Lake Superior and the sense of isolation that makes it feel like no other course I've ever played.  In its own way, Kingsley is also a unique setting.

As I noted, I feel like I know KC better than I know GW.  I have the sense that even with additional plays in Marquette, the course wouldn't get old.  Right now, I'd probably have a 6-4 split in favor of Kingsley and would guess that would be the same even if I'd played each 20 times.

Hope this helps.  I guess the short answer is that even though its a long way to go to play golf, getting up to Greywalls is definitely worth the effort.

Sven

[Tyler Kearns]

Bob,

I would definitely give the edge to Kingsley, it is a course I don't think I could ever tire of.  Greywalls is situated over a more difficult terrain, with lots of rock outcroppings and great views that have been exploited very nicely by Mike DeVries.  A good portion of the course plays through heavier forest and the native areas are quite unforgiving.  Both courses are demanding, but while Kingsley beats you up with bogies, Greywalls can be unforgiving if you are having a bad day. 

Given 10 rounds, I'll take 7 at Kingsley.

It should be noted that the Heritage course at Greywalls features nine holes by Langford (& Moreau?).  Mike DeVries gave a few of us a tour in 2009, and some restoration work would do wonders to bring some of the bold features back to life.

TK

[Jeff Tang]

I'm a big fan of both courses even though I have limited experience playing both.  For me what was the most noticeable difference was how the courses were maintained.  Kingsley was smoking firm and fast when I was there and Greywalls less so.  I thought they were different kinds of courses due to the terrain which was mentioned earlier.

[Brian Cenci]

Both are great courses and in my top 5 for Michigan.  Kingsley is more of a course you would want to walk and play every day and Greywalls to me is more of a course to play a few times a year.  I'd say they are pretty equal.  Even though same designer they are two different types of courses.  Greywalls actually has some unique topography to work with....I just wish they would switch the flags back at Greywalls to the old King Aurthur's Knights style that looked like a Midevil Dragon should come down and swoop up your ball.  You won't be upset at all making the extended trip up to Greywalls.  If you like Kingsley then you will like Greywalls, vice versa.

-Brian

[Adam Clayman]

Considering that Kingsley's routing is a type of homage to Crystal Downs, it's hard to find fault. Especially because the conditioning is the perfect meld. Greywalls on the other hand is quite unique. Mike's bold routing there, is just a breath of fresh air, with it's sequences (both macro and micro) when compared to the other 16,999 courses in the U.S.

Any serious golfer would be lucky to play either of these course on a regular basis.

[Jim Tang]

I would split rounds 8/2 in favor of Kingsley.

One similarity is you often must play away from the hole location in order to get the ball close.  Both Greywalls and Kingsley have all sorts of humps and slopes which allow you to funnel the ball toward the stick.  They are the type of courses where you need multiple rounds to understand what is going on and how best to play the holes.

I love that type of golf.

[Bob_Garvelink]

I would split rounds 8/2 in favor of Kingsley.

One similarity is you often must play away from the hole location in order to get the ball close.  Both Greywalls and Kingsley have all sorts of humps and slopes which allow you to funnel the ball toward the stick.  They are the type of courses where you need multiple rounds to understand what is going on and how best to play the holes.

I love that type of golf.

Jim,

I love how the greens were designed on this course.  Here is a recap on my first time playing hole #5 at Kingsley.

Hole # 5 This may be my favorite hole on the entire course!!!!  Great par 3 and the pin was middle right.  I was able to hit a nice 3 wood shot to the back/left portion of the green and then was able to watch my ball roll right towards the hole. I can see why this can be a nice hole in one opportunity for certain pin placements.  I had a 5 foot birdie putt.  I read the green correct and had a great line but left it 1 inch short.....lets just say you shouldnt send a boy to do a mans job!

[Steve Lang]

  Love em both, split the distance & scope, and just play The Black Forest

[Bob_Garvelink]

Love em both, split the distance & scope, and just play The Black Forest

Steve,

Black Forest is another amazing course by Tom Doak.  What a hidden gem!!!!!  I had a chance to play it last year and my group and I had an amazing golf experience.  You can get on that course for $25 if you hit a twilight.....now thats why Northern Michigan golf is simply the best.   

Bob G.

[Steve Lang]

   some devries there at BF...

[Chris_Hufnagel]

Kingsley is more of a course you would want to walk and play every day and Greywalls to me is more of a course to play a few times a year.  I'd say they are pretty equal.  

I read this quote a few days ago and have been thinking about it ever since...

I am not disagreeing, but for me, a course that I would want to walk and play every day is more than "equal" to a course I would want to play a few times a year.

For me, there is nothing better than a course that constantly keeps my interest, a course I want to run right back to the first tee after finishing eighteen, and a course that is a pleasure to walk.

Again, not comparing Kingsley to Greywalls or challenging the assertion - just a different set of criteria I suppose...

[Jim Tang]

Bob -

The 5th at Kingsley is one of my favorites as well for the reasons you mention.  Last fall when I was there I the flag was way right.  Everyone in my group hit it 20 yards left of the stick and banged it off that slope/hill on the left and watched as the ball trickled toward the flag.  So fun!

[Anders Rytter]

Sorry to hi-jack but how do people feel about the 6th at kingsley?

[Sven Nilsen]

Sorry to hi-jack but how do people feel about the 6th at kingsley?

I like the different looks you get on the hole playing from different tee locations (including the far right edge of the 2nd tee).  It plays well as either a long or short two-shotter from a variety of different angles, and the way the green looks almost like its floating against the background is one of my favorite visuals on the course.  Throw in the contours right of the green that allow you to work a ball on and the way a back pin can result in a timid approach and there's a lot of interest in the second shot.

It does take a couple of plays to figure the hole out, but there's more going on than you realize.  Its also a hole that asks you to take your medicine if you get in trouble.  I've seen the occasional player try a shot to the green after missing the fairway right only to end up looking for a ball on the hill on the back of 7 tee.  Knock it down into the gap, chip up and hope you can make a putt.

[RJ_Daley]

Using the premise that I am a golfer who would spend my resources or golf budget on a course that I'l love to play as many time a week as possible, I'd opt for Kingsley if I live there and it was constantly available.  I'd opt to take a yearly drive to GW because it is so much fun and a big adventure. 

If I lived near GW, I would not spend my yearly budget on GW per se, because it would just be too much of a grind everyday or often during the week.  If the Marquette club were the only choice, I'd probably walk the original course every 5-6 times I played, and look forward to perhaps a monthly play of the spectacular but difficult GW.  GW isn't a realistic walk of 18 holes for me anymore.  And, I'd tolerate the cart ride to enjoy the course, just not on a constant basis of regular play.  I think I could deal with walking more at Kingsley better in that regard.   It is just as much fun with great design presentation but facilitates a walk, to a much greater degree.

[Bill Seitz]

Sorry to hi-jack but how do people feel about the 6th at kingsley?

There's great visual deception off the tee the first couple times you play it.  I've gotten to the point where the tee shot is pretty easy now, but it's still one I love to hit.  It's usually a short iron in, but I always seem to underclub the approach for some reason.  Might be slightly and deceptively uphill?  The green is pretty tame compared to the rest on the course, but there is a really diabolical pin position on a little shelf on the back left corner of the green that makes the hole really tough.  They had it back there for the first round of the club championship last year, and I saw it another time or two after that.  It turns it from a breather hole into a potential nightmare.  It probably ranks in the bottom third of my favorite holes, but that's only because I love all of the other holes so much.

[Bob_Garvelink]

  some devries there at BF...

Well you learn something everyday   I did not know that but I will golf a Doak or Devries track any day and any time.  These gentlemen know how to produce great golfing experiences.   

[Ronald Montesano]

.

[Bob_Garvelink]

Sorry to hi-jack but how do people feel about the 6th at kingsley?

I have only played Kingsley twice.  If I remember hole #6 correctly the tee shot is intimidating although there is a lot more room than one thinks while they are on the tee box.  Additionally the approach shot is awesome.  If you go long or left your in trouble.  I used the front slope to help feed my ball towards the hole which makes this hole one of the best at Kingsley.

[Jud_T]

Given that my goal in life isn't to take Uzis out of the hands of deranged twentysomethings, help get us out of bed with the middle east oil cartel or ensure that women and children across the globe get food, water and an education but rather to play Golf Digest's Top 100 courses at any cost, I doubt I'll have much time for either of these tracks in America's hinterland.  I'm having a custom titanium plaque of the new ranking list handmade out of a block of solid titanium.  After each course is checked off the list, and officially verified by name checking it in these august pages, the family eunuch will ceremoniously chisel a mark next to the appropriate course with a solid diamond pick at the stroke of high noon on the following business day.  At this precise moment I will drink a shot of fresh baby seal blood.