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Mark Bourgeois

Begging for a break from the photo tours
« on: October 18, 2012, 03:09:12 AM »
My God, 14 on the front page.  :'(  Can't we stop the photorrhea for just a little while?

Please please don't take it personally. I genuinely appreciate the contributions and enjoy reading your posts on various topics. But the "you don't have to click on them" argument doesn't work when there are *14* threads on page 1.

How bout a word tour instead? Maybe a pic or two to make a point? It seemed / seems to work for Doak, Dickinson, Finnegan, Mucci...

Emil Weber

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Begging for a break from the photo tours
« Reply #1 on: October 18, 2012, 03:13:03 AM »
Hi Mark,

you have a point that the photo tours have increased recently, but I think that is a very good trend. I love photo tours, it is simply the best and easiest way to get to know a course because, well, picures say more than a 1000 words. Without the photo tours, GCA wouldn't be half as much fun for me and I think for many others aswell.

Cheers!

Emil Weber

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Begging for a break from the photo tours
« Reply #2 on: October 18, 2012, 03:18:07 AM »
plus, GCA can be best explained and visualized with the help of photos. Even Ran uses them in his reviews. And even if philosophy is a big part of describing GCA, it's not what the website is about!

Cheers!

MikeJones

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Begging for a break from the photo tours
« Reply #3 on: October 18, 2012, 03:35:26 AM »
Photo tours are the best thing in here. More photo tours please!

Dane Hawker

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Begging for a break from the photo tours
« Reply #4 on: October 18, 2012, 04:03:36 AM »
Love the tours. Please keep them up! I even go back in the archives looking at them

John Chilver-Stainer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Begging for a break from the photo tours
« Reply #5 on: October 18, 2012, 04:05:08 AM »
More photo tours please - the best part of this site :)

Neil White

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Begging for a break from the photo tours
« Reply #6 on: October 18, 2012, 04:10:12 AM »
Mark,

Whilst the photo tours vary in quality - picture or write-up - they are what make this site all the more enjoyable.

Without pictures some threads would be impossible to understand, especially where a hole or course is discussed which I and others have little opportunity to visit.

Neil.

Jon Wiggett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Begging for a break from the photo tours
« Reply #7 on: October 18, 2012, 05:10:27 AM »
My God, 14 on the front page.  :'(  Can't we stop the photorrhea for just a little while?

Please please don't take it personally. I genuinely appreciate the contributions and enjoy reading your posts on various topics. But the "you don't have to click on them" argument doesn't work when there are *14* threads on page 1.

How bout a word tour instead? Maybe a pic or two to make a point? It seemed / seems to work for Doak, Dickinson, Finnegan, Mucci...

Mark,

your wish is fulfilled. Just 10 tours on the first side at the moment. You could try reading the threads in quate mode thus only seeing the IMG tags ;D

Jon

Dónal Ó Ceallaigh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Begging for a break from the photo tours
« Reply #8 on: October 18, 2012, 07:19:24 AM »
Mark,

I really don't understand the problem, other than too many photo tours results in too little time spent discussing each one individually. It's easy to ignore photo tours, as they always have "Photo tour" in the heading. You can take a break from the photo tours, but it's not so easy with the OTs, as the subject rarely begins with OT.

If you take away the photo tours, we'll be left with nothing but OTs on Obama and ranking lists. Here's what's been cluttering up the DG lately:

"Does Romney play golf?"
"Why I hate you"
"Clueless in Seattle"
etc..

I've been frustrated with the number of OTs recently. In many cases you cannot figure out what is being discussed until you actally click on the link to the topic. That's not the case with photo tours.

Even the "Whip it out... your top 25 courses" and "Your last ten" contain very little discussion on architecture. The discussion revolves around why one course is lower or above another in someones list. Very seldomly does anyone actually discuss architecture when the ranking lists are posted.

I would suggest that each individual stick to posting one photo tour at a time, rather than multiple photo tours. That will ensure that we all have some time to devote to each photo tour. One recent photo tour didn't elicit even one reply, and the course was designed by a very prominent architect and a DG favourite.

So, more PTs and less OTs please!!!
« Last Edit: October 18, 2012, 09:01:33 AM by Dónal Ó Ceallaigh »

Dan Herrmann

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Begging for a break from the photo tours
« Reply #9 on: October 18, 2012, 08:01:27 AM »
I want more! 

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Begging for a break from the photo tours
« Reply #10 on: October 18, 2012, 08:16:35 AM »
My God, 14 on the front page.  :'(  Can't we stop the photorrhea for just a little while?

Please please don't take it personally. I genuinely appreciate the contributions and enjoy reading your posts on various topics. But the "you don't have to click on them" argument doesn't work when there are *14* threads on page 1.

How bout a word tour instead? Maybe a pic or two to make a point? It seemed / seems to work for Doak, Dickinson, Finnegan, Mucci...

Really?  ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) :o :o :o :o :o :o


Finally got the absurd and/or divisive OT topics down and now we're criticizing the best part of GCA.
I did a word tour of Donegal and while quite a few really commented positively, I still belive  it would have been enhanced by the insertion of at least a few pictures as John has done so eloquently on the Mucci NGLA threads.
 My hat goes off to those wih the skill and patience to post pictures, and those are the very thing that alows many of us to survive bleak, dreary winters, as well as assisting in planning trips, particularly when traveling with newbies who might need a bit of enticement.

Anything but another argument about who did what at Merion.

Take a look at the Royal County Down second course tour.
I have recommended that course to many people and no one that I know has ever taken me up on it.
I'm guessing many on GCA now will as it's not just a fun couse, but a course full of interesting, strategic,and incredibly scenic holes.

If a picture is worth a thousand words, I expect someone would have to write a 400 page novel to compare to that photo tour. ;D
« Last Edit: October 18, 2012, 08:26:35 AM by jeffwarne »
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Mark McKeever

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Begging for a break from the photo tours
« Reply #11 on: October 18, 2012, 08:42:09 AM »
I think the photo tours are one of the best things going for this site right now.  If anything, eliminate the off topic and personal attacks that end up being made in half the other threads.


Mark
Best MGA showers - Bayonne

"Dude, he's a total d***"

Jud_T

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Begging for a break from the photo tours
« Reply #12 on: October 18, 2012, 08:53:07 AM »
Takes space away from discussing the plethora of new courses going up every day... :-\
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Tim Martin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Begging for a break from the photo tours
« Reply #13 on: October 18, 2012, 08:57:24 AM »
My God, 14 on the front page.  :'(  Can't we stop the photorrhea for just a little while?

Please please don't take it personally. I genuinely appreciate the contributions and enjoy reading your posts on various topics. But the "you don't have to click on them" argument doesn't work when there are *14* threads on page 1.

How bout a word tour instead? Maybe a pic or two to make a point? It seemed / seems to work for Doak, Dickinson, Finnegan, Mucci...

Really?  ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) :o :o :o :o :o :o


Finally got the absurd and/or divisive OT topics down and now we're criticizing the best part of GCA.
I did a word tour of Donegal and while quite a few really commented positively, I still belive  it would have been enhanced by the insertion of at least a few pictures as John has done so eloquently on the Mucci NGLA threads.
 My hat goes off to those wih the skill and patience to post pictures, and those are the very thing that alows many of us to survive bleak, dreary winters, as well as assisting in planning trips, particularly when traveling with newbies who might need a bit of enticement.

Anything but another argument about who did what at Merion.

Take a look at the Royal County Down second course tour.
I have recommended that course to many people and no one that I know has ever taken me up on it.
I'm guessing many on GCA now will as it's not just a fun couse, but a course full of interesting, strategic,and incredibly scenic holes.

If a picture is worth a thousand words, I expect someone would have to write a 400 page novel to compare to that photo tour. ;D


As interesting as Pat Mucci's Enchanted Journey thread is it is only enhanced by the photo's that have been added. Not everyone has been to all the subject courses on the board and the pictures add both context and a frame of reference. Keep em coming!!!

Ken Moum

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Begging for a break from the photo tours
« Reply #14 on: October 18, 2012, 08:58:20 AM »
I'm not a fan of the photo tours either. But not because of their proliferation.

I just wish so many of them weren't a string of dozens of pictures.  Instead I would love to see fewer pictures and more of the  thoughts of the poster.

There's a reason the most successful magazines aren't wall-to-wall pictures.

K
Over time, the guy in the ideal position derives an advantage, and delivering him further  advantage is not worth making the rest of the players suffer at the expense of fun, variety, and ultimately cost -- Jeff Warne, 12-08-2010

Mark Pearce

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Begging for a break from the photo tours
« Reply #15 on: October 18, 2012, 09:05:24 AM »
I'm not a fan of the photo tours either. But not because of their proliferation.

I just wish so many of them weren't a string of dozens of pictures.  Instead I would love to see fewer pictures and more of the  thoughts of the poster.

There's a reason the most successful magazines aren't wall-to-wall pictures.

K
Exactly.  The vast majority of photo tours consist of dozens of photos with no discussion, no analysis and no insight.  At least when Pat Mucci posts about holes he discusses them, analyses and criticises.  A photo might help but his approach is so much better than pages of photos but no discussion.
In June I will be riding the first three stages of this year's Tour de France route for charity.  630km (394 miles) in three days, with 7800m (25,600 feet) of climbing for the William Wates Memorial Trust (https://rideleloop.org/the-charity/) which supports underprivileged young people.

Mark Saltzman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Begging for a break from the photo tours
« Reply #16 on: October 18, 2012, 09:06:16 AM »
I'm not a fan of the photo tours either. But not because of their proliferation.

I just wish so many of them weren't a string of dozens of pictures.  Instead I would love to see fewer pictures and more of the  thoughts of the poster.

There's a reason the most successful magazines aren't wall-to-wall pictures.

K

Ken, I appreciate this comment.  As one who posts photo tours often, I am interested in feedback.  I try to give some of my own thoughts on each hole.

Would you look at my two most recent tours on The Creek and Sleepy Hollow (both on the first page)? I know it does not compare to the analysis by Pat Mucci, but do you think there is sufficient analysis? Constructive criticism is welcome.


MSB, an OT thread complaining about the T threads?  

Mark Pearce

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Begging for a break from the photo tours
« Reply #17 on: October 18, 2012, 09:15:59 AM »
Mark,

I'm not Ken but for me the best photo tours, and those that balance images with analysis best, are those that Sean Arble does. 
In June I will be riding the first three stages of this year's Tour de France route for charity.  630km (394 miles) in three days, with 7800m (25,600 feet) of climbing for the William Wates Memorial Trust (https://rideleloop.org/the-charity/) which supports underprivileged young people.

Josh Tarble

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Begging for a break from the photo tours
« Reply #18 on: October 18, 2012, 09:27:00 AM »
I would much rather have 100 photo tours than any more threads talking about politics or any of the other useless OT stuff

BHoover

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Begging for a break from the photo tours
« Reply #19 on: October 18, 2012, 09:28:13 AM »
I could not disagree more with you, Mark.  Speaking as someone who has not been fortunate enough to see many of the greatest courses in the USA, much less the ROW, I love the photo tours.  The more photo tours, the better.


SteveOgulukian

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Begging for a break from the photo tours
« Reply #20 on: October 18, 2012, 09:35:58 AM »
This thread is pointless without a photo

Carl Nichols

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Begging for a break from the photo tours
« Reply #21 on: October 18, 2012, 09:37:58 AM »
I agree that the best photo tours are the ones that combine pictures with analysis.  But I'd still rather have a photo-heavy picture tour than a lot of the other stuff on here, and as someone who's posted a few of them in the past, I know how much time and effort goes into writing the analysis piece, and completely understand why the picture-heavy tours exist.  Sure hope this thread doesn't stop someone from posting one.

Phil McDade

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Begging for a break from the photo tours
« Reply #22 on: October 18, 2012, 09:50:39 AM »
Mark,

I'm not Ken but for me the best photo tours, and those that balance images with analysis best, are those that Sean Arble does. 

The comedian Mike Myers was once asked if his SNL character Linda Richman of "Coffee Talk" fame was modeled after anyone, in particular his Jewish mother-in-law. "It is my mother-in-law!" he said, adding he had to tone it down to make the character appear more realistic.

When I started doing photo threads for this site several years ago, I told myself I should model them after Sean's threads. But basically I rip him off. It's not just how he does them, it's his choices of courses that make his threads so interesting to read. He rarely profiles the big-name courses, and instead focuses on the little-known places that -- it turns out -- contain a ton of interesting architecture.

When I do a thread, I tend to follow several principles, derived from folks like Sean and others. Among them:

-- First, answer the question likely asked by the reader when he comes upon the thread: Why should I read about this course? What role does this course play? What makes it worthy of a thread? Provide some history and context, before diving into the details. (And I hasten to add that I've found photo tours of lesser-known courses far more interesting to look at -- in the context of the purpose of this site -- than some of the "name" courses profiled.)

-- I tend to lean toward more pictures, rather than less. Yes, it may seem like a long haul to look at the photos, but I'd rather provide more context for a hole rather than less.

-- I like to show all 18 holes on a course, but tend to focus more photos on holes that I find more interesting, or with architectural merit, than evenly distributing photos for all holes. I think all photos, or nearly all of them, ought to contain some observation on the part of the writer about the hole, and how it plays, and features that may or may not be obvious to the reader.

-- If possible (or if I remember) I also try to include a photo or two of something of interest on the course not strictly related to the course (ala Mr. Mayhugh and others). Mark Saltzman's photo of the loooong drive leading to the Creek Club was one of the coolest photos in his really good thread on that course. Sean usually includes photos of course clubhouses, which I always find interesting.

Some of the ones I've most enjoyed doing:

Blue Mound G&CC:

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,45401.0.html

Erin Hills:

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,45966.0.html

The 9th hole at Milwaukee Country Club:

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,37107.0.html

Blackhawk CC in Madison WI:

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,41775.0.html





PCCraig

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Begging for a break from the photo tours
« Reply #23 on: October 18, 2012, 10:14:04 AM »
I'd take 14 photo tour threads over 14 stupid threads started by Dentist Gray (usually in the same hour) or another manifesto from the black sheep of Old Tom's brood.

Candidly, I don't think GCA has ever been as good as it's been over the past few months, and I started lurking here in 2002 and joined as a poster in early 2005.  
« Last Edit: October 18, 2012, 10:52:09 AM by PCraig »
H.P.S.

Brad Tufts

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Begging for a break from the photo tours
« Reply #24 on: October 18, 2012, 10:23:20 AM »
Love the photo tours.

When I look down the board of threads, and think to myself of what to click on...."photo tour" will get my click every time.  I even forward links to the tours to myself on occasion to remind myself to read them. 

I'm a fan of Mark, Sean, Joe, and all the photo-threaders.  The only ones that irk me are those that drone on for 6 months...I'd say no slower than one hole per day!
So I jump ship in Hong Kong....

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