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Randy Thompson

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Do you find uphill holes weak?
« on: October 15, 2012, 06:44:09 PM »
Can you site some examples of good uphill holes and why you consider them good compared to other typical uphill holes! What do you consider a bad uphill hole.
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jeffwarne

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Re: Do you find uphill holes weak?
« Reply #1 on: October 15, 2012, 06:54:39 PM »
Quote from: Randy Thompson on October 15, 2012, 06:44:09 PM
Can you site some examples of good uphill holes and why you consider them good compared to other typical uphill holes! What do you consider a bad uphill hole.

A bad uphill hole is when you hike 80 yards uphill off a green............
..........and then play downhill ::) ::)
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Mike Hendren

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Re: Do you find uphill holes weak?
« Reply #2 on: October 15, 2012, 07:01:43 PM »
The best uphill holes are those that give you the opportunity to tack your way across the higher side of uneven ground.  The 18th at National Golf Links of America and the 8th at Crystal Downs come to mind.     A climb also lends itself to a driveable par four like the 10th at Wild Dunes or 16th at Holston Hills.  Finally, the uphill blind approach to a skyline green is a great test of judgement, club selection and distance control. 

Bogey
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Mark Pritchett

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Re: Do you find uphill holes weak?
« Reply #3 on: October 15, 2012, 07:22:15 PM »
Ah the 10th at Wild Dunes, I love that hole. 

Other uphill holes I like:

#11 Shinnecock
#8 ANGC
#10 Fishers Island
#14 Augusta CC
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archie_struthers

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Re: Do you find uphill holes weak?
« Reply #4 on: October 15, 2012, 07:32:07 PM »
 ::) ??? ::)

Love uphill holes , even a little elevation  change .  Think that the tee shots set up so much better than downhill.  Think of #2 at Pine Valley, 10 at Shinnecock as examples of really good uphill holes.  I just like them so much more than downhill , for me it just fits the eye, especially on the tee shot .

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noonan

Re: Do you find uphill holes weak?
« Reply #5 on: October 15, 2012, 07:33:12 PM »
Quote from: Mark Pritchett on October 15, 2012, 07:22:15 PM
Ah the 10th at Wild Dunes, I love that hole. 

Other uphill holes I like:

#11 Shinnecock
#8 ANGC
#10 Fishers Island
#14 Augusta CC
August National?

If so why not 18 over 14
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Mark Pritchett

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Re: Do you find uphill holes weak?
« Reply #6 on: October 15, 2012, 07:36:55 PM »
Quote from: Jerry Kessler on October 15, 2012, 07:33:12 PM
Quote from: Mark Pritchett on October 15, 2012, 07:22:15 PM
Ah the 10th at Wild Dunes, I love that hole.  

Other uphill holes I like:

#11 Shinnecock
#8 ANGC
#10 Fishers Island
#14 Augusta CC
August National?

If so why not 18 over 14

No, not Augusta National, #14 at Augusta Country Club.

« Last Edit: October 15, 2012, 07:39:53 PM by Mark Pritchett »
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Mark Pritchett

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Re: Do you find uphill holes weak?
« Reply #7 on: October 15, 2012, 07:41:16 PM »
The 10th hole at Grandfather is another good example of a well done uphill hole. 
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rjsimper

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Re: Do you find uphill holes weak?
« Reply #8 on: October 15, 2012, 07:57:22 PM »
Fresh in my mind....the revised 17 at The Bridge I thought was pretty darn good.
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Bart Bradley

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Re: Do you find uphill holes weak?
« Reply #9 on: October 15, 2012, 08:00:33 PM »
Quote from: Mark Pritchett on October 15, 2012, 07:41:16 PM
The 10th hole at Grandfather is another good example of a well done uphill hole. 

Suck up!  Yes, the 10th is a lovely hole at Grandfather.  Nice par, Mark.

Bart
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Mac Plumart

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Re: Do you find uphill holes weak?
« Reply #10 on: October 15, 2012, 08:04:31 PM »
3 at Fishers.  Thrilling tee shot.  Beautiful green site with scary bunkers.

3 at Southampton.  Flat out exciting.

15 at Old Mac.

Man, there are so many good ones I could go on forever.
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Gary Slatter

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Re: Do you find uphill holes weak?
« Reply #11 on: October 15, 2012, 08:22:47 PM »
the 18th at The National (Woodbridge) is good, I favour gentle uphill over severely downhill.
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Gary Slatter
gary.slatter@raffles.com

jeffwarne

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Re: Do you find uphill holes weak?
« Reply #12 on: October 15, 2012, 08:23:05 PM »
Quote from: Ryan_Simper on October 15, 2012, 07:57:22 PM
Fresh in my mind....the revised 17 at The Bridge I thought was pretty darn good.




wait till you see 8
« Last Edit: October 15, 2012, 10:00:45 PM by jeffwarne »
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"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Bill Brightly

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Re: Do you find uphill holes weak?
« Reply #13 on: October 15, 2012, 08:29:10 PM »
I generally like slightly uphill holes, rather than severe upslopes, which tend to be just hard, not great.

One of the things I think Tillinghast did best was use modest upslopes to partially  obscure the ideal landing area, putting doubt in the player's mind as to exactly where the shot should be aimed. He did this with great effect at Ridgewood 8 West and 2 East.
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Randy Thompson

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Re: Do you find uphill holes weak?
« Reply #14 on: October 15, 2012, 08:38:38 PM »
Bill,
I do that sometimes..by accident! Maybe when I am dead people will think itīs brillant but now they just bitch!
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Tim Martin

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Re: Do you find uphill holes weak?
« Reply #15 on: October 15, 2012, 09:02:58 PM »
I love uphill holes and there are many good ones. Here are 5 that come to mind:
17 Oakmont
2 Lancaster CC
8 Merion West
2 Leatherstocking
7 Wampanoag


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Bill Brightly

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Re: Do you find uphill holes weak?
« Reply #16 on: October 15, 2012, 09:04:20 PM »
Randy,

That is funny, because I often wonder if the current rough/fairway lines are not the same as when Tilly built Ridgewood, and I am giving him too much credit.

Anyway, here is what I am trying to say. This is 2 East, a par 5 with a very modest upslope. Here is the green that is obviously best to approach from the left side of the fairway:



But since it is a three-tier green, and each section is very small, so you MUST hit your third shot from the fairway. And here is the look of the second shot. If you aim too far left, the side slope will feed the ball into the left rough. Aim to far right to allow for the side slope, and leave it in the right rough, and you are dead.

« Last Edit: October 15, 2012, 09:09:26 PM by Bill Brightly »
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Tommy Williamsen

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Re: Do you find uphill holes weak?
« Reply #17 on: October 15, 2012, 09:08:38 PM »
One at Ballyhack is severely uphill.  The second shot is in the 100-130 yard range to a green with a false front.

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Randy Thompson

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Re: Do you find uphill holes weak?
« Reply #18 on: October 15, 2012, 09:27:03 PM »
Great pictures and examples Bill and Tommy!
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K. Krahenbuhl

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Re: Do you find uphill holes weak?
« Reply #19 on: October 15, 2012, 09:35:16 PM »
One of each par that I love...

#4 at Prairie Dunes
#2 at TCC Brookline
#8 at Crystal Downs
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Matthew Essig

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Re: Do you find uphill holes weak?
« Reply #20 on: October 15, 2012, 09:55:35 PM »
Quote from: jeffwarne on October 15, 2012, 06:54:39 PM
Quote from: Randy Thompson on October 15, 2012, 06:44:09 PM
Can you site some examples of good uphill holes and why you consider them good compared to other typical uphill holes! What do you consider a bad uphill hole.

A bad uphill hole is when you hike 80 yards uphill off a green............
..........and then play downhill ::) ::)

This was my first thought when I read the thread title!  8)

I would much rather play up the hill than just walk up the hill to a tee box.

Building the hole with a skyline green, a green with a false front that causes the ball to roll back down the hill a little, or an angled green in the hillside all makes for interesting options that can take players up the hill.

Examples of these options: 4 at Arcola - skyline; 13 at Torrey Pines (South) - false front that causes balls to roll down the hill; 9 at Riviera - angled green in the hillside
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Mike Hendren

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Re: Do you find uphill holes weak?
« Reply #21 on: October 15, 2012, 10:13:16 PM »
Uphill holes can also intimidate.  The 2nd shot at Augusta National's 8th hole is among the most visually intimidating shots I've seen.
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Keith Phillips

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Re: Do you find uphill holes weak?
« Reply #22 on: October 15, 2012, 10:22:04 PM »
I love uphill holes - at Montclair Golf in New Jersey we play on a steep property - terrific uphill holes include:

 - par 3s - 5 of 1, 2 of 2, 3 of 3 - all play longer than measured 175, 165, 200 yards, and all play to very challenging, yet distinctive greens
 - short par 4s - 7 of 1, 7 of 2, 8 of 2, 8 of 3 - important to place tee shot in right location vs. fairway bunkers, but still difficult to hit PW-8I to ideal location on greens
 - long par 4s 4 of 1, 9 of 1, 9 of 2, 9 of 3, 4 of 4...all unique holes with mid-long-irons into very difficult greens
 - par 5 6 of 3 - our only uphill par 5 - reachable with two strong shots if tees are up, but very deep greenside bunkers reward discretion

In general, I find I overswing on longer uphill shots, tending to block balls right - while I don't play them particularly well, I think the elevation change presents a fair challenge.  On balance, I far prefer a nice blend of uphill/downhill holes to a flattish property.
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Bruce Leland

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Re: Do you find uphill holes weak?
« Reply #23 on: October 15, 2012, 10:30:22 PM »
The title of this thread begs a response referencing No. 10 at Northland Country Club in Duluth, MN.  Any among you who have played it would hardly think it weak either architecturally or from a scoring perspective.  It plays severely uphill with a slight false front. It has a history and reputation of being the hardest 4 par in Minnesota.

My favorite uphiller at NCC though would be the third. It plays significantly shorter than the 10th but features a two tiered green which makes it a bit more thought provoking while standing over your second.
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mike_beene

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Re: Do you find uphill holes weak?
« Reply #24 on: October 15, 2012, 11:12:24 PM »
 6at Pebble is oddly interesting. The former Village course at Kapalua had a good set of climbing holes including a par 3 that required a few extra clubs and was fun to see where you ended up as the green was blind.
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