[Tom_Doak]

Tom...when you do multiple routings for one site, do you see drastically different courses developing or are they similar in nature?  If similar, is this due to client mandate or site specific issues or both?

Mac:  I don't usually do a lot of different routings for a site, or at least, I don't let anyone else see them.    I don't want the client to pick the wrong one.  So, I usually just keep evolving the routing into something I like more and more.  And, yes, tempo is usually part of that evolution.

[John Kirk]

What are some course tempos that you like?  Why?

I like the "classic California" start, easy 5 followed by hard 4.  I'm very familiar with it, and it works well for the early morning player who doesn't warm up.  You can scrape a par on the first hole, and by the second hole you're loose.  These classic courses feature the 5-4 start.

Pasatiempo (before #1 redesignated a par 4 recently)
Riviera (I believe #2 was originally a par 5 also)
Stanford
LACC North
San Francisco GC
Olympic Club

[John Kirk]

I may be a little off here but I think Pete Dye had a tempo he often tried to use in his finishing holes in order to invoke specific shots under pressure that could be played by all types of players.  So often I have seen his courses with a 16th hole which is a reachable but risky par 5 with a green moving left to right followed by a 17th  island green and a 18th  long right to left cape hole with a green moving right to left.  Can this be considered "tempo"...that series of shots has proven to be very good under pressure...JMO

I have determined, even with a small sample, that Mr. Dye wants to mess with my head, succeeds brilliantly, and I don't like it.

[John Kirk]

I have to believe a course like Sand Hills could have been constructed with varying tempos regardless of starter shacks/clubhouses due to the vast amount of available golfing land.

Obviously, Sand Hills benefits from no clubhouse restrictions.  Interesting how the best solution includes the only short par 4s back to back.

[Mac Plumart]

I have to believe a course like Sand Hills could have been constructed with varying tempos regardless of starter shacks/clubhouses due to the vast amount of available golfing land.

Obviously, Sand Hills benefits from no clubhouse restrictions.  Interesting how the best solution includes the only short par 4s back to back.

John...

I used the Sand Hills example not to highlight anything specific at Sand Hills other than their vast amount of golf-land.  I was trying to say that  at a course like this, even if the clubhouse was fixed, I think an architect could create almost any feel or tempo they wanted.  I tried to highlight how more difficult this would be with a fixed clubhouse on a course with limited land and options.  Do you disagree with this?

Also, can you get more into detail on your thoughts regarding the back to back par 4 solution?

[John Kirk]

Hi Mac,

First of all, I agree with your first statement.  Bill Coore and Ben Crenshaw were blessed with an extraordinary number of options .  There's a famous drawing in the clubhouse that shows the 100+ holes "found" on the property.  Certainly, projects with fewer options, a fixed clubhouse and environmental restrictions have fewer available routing "solutions".

Regarding my thoughts about the chosen routing where the two short par 4s are consecutive, I don't have much interesting to say.  Best left for the professionals and club members.  I'll give it a try.  Since a good short par 4 is so fun to play, it is curious that Sand Hills has only two, and they are positioned back-to-back, early in the round.  I suppose you could call this a weakness of the course.  Both #7 and #8 are outstanding golf holes, very fun to play.  Since so little earth (sand) was moved at Sand Hills to create the holes, perhaps specific landforms are required for the specialized purpose of a short par 4.  Maybe there were only a few short par 4s on that land.  I don't know.

Just taking a shot in the dark.  I've played the course a few times, and I'm not an architect, so I'm doing my best to comment.

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