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ChipOat

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Trees at Merion that matter
« on: October 05, 2012, 10:34:38 AM »
With apologies to those who have not played Merion.

This must sound like a strange topic coming from someone who, for the most part, believes that less-is-best when it come to trees on golf courses.  Even when they are well away from the fairway and/or green, they still restrict air flow and light.  This is especially problematic for good green conditions.

However, Merion has done a good job of removing my hated Stupid Trees over the years and leaving those that are legitimate bogey makers following a poor shot.

Removal Examples:  The trees on the right edge of the quarry that blocked the right half of the 16th green from the right half of the fairway are gone.  The trees that form the chutes off the 10th and 12th tee boxes have been trimmed back.  The trees at the top of the quarry on #18 are gone.  If you hit your tee shot where they used to be, you end up on the wrong side of the hole (and in the rough), anyway.

Retention examples:

What I like about the trees that remain is that they obviate the need for deep rough (which I abhor) and they almost always make the recovery shot some kind of bail out.

1) Tall pine trees to the right of #1;
2) Pine trees left of the fairway on #1;
3) Thee big trees between #2 and #5 - very important for making the recovery from a big hook off #2 quite difficult;
4) Tall pines on the right of #4 at the top of the hill;
5) Overhanging trees on the right of #7;
6) Pine trees to the left of #8 near the left bunker;
7) Grove of trees across the creek to the left of #11;
8) Pine trees to the right of #14 near the 15th tee box;
9) Tall pine grove short/right of the 15th green;
10) Grove of trees right of the fairway bunkers on #16.

Without any of them, the hole in question would require either deep rough (yuck) or some other deterrent (I don't know what they would be).

I don't see Necessary Trees very often.  Merion seems to have quite a few.  Fortunately, they were not removed when the East Course was restored to 1930. 

Mark McKeever

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Trees at Merion that matter
« Reply #1 on: October 05, 2012, 11:39:20 AM »
Interesting post Chip.  With the excpetion of the left miss on hole 1, I think I have been influenced by each of those keeper trees mentioned at some point in time.

Mark
Best MGA showers - Bayonne

"Dude, he's a total d***"

JSlonis

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Trees at Merion that matter
« Reply #2 on: October 05, 2012, 01:21:25 PM »
Chip,

Now we get to disagree on more stuff regarding Merion.  :)   Especially the overhanging trees right on #7. With the narrowing and shifting of that fairway away from the left side which further forces the tee shot toward the right, I've seen balls in the right side of the fairway get blocked out a bit. Maybe they've been trimmed back some since I was there last but if a player hits any portion of such a narrow landing area, they should at least have an unimpeded approach shot.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2012, 06:36:04 PM by JSlonis »

Dan Boerger

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Trees at Merion that matter
« Reply #3 on: October 05, 2012, 02:11:16 PM »
Chip - I could not agree with you more regarding the trees lining the right side #4.

Along that same line ... trees that also absolutely enhance the holes at Aronimink (where I'm most familiar) are right side #7 and left and right #18.
"Man should practice moderation in all things, including moderation."  Mark Twain

ChipOat

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Trees at Merion that matter
« Reply #4 on: October 05, 2012, 04:21:04 PM »
JSlonis,

I think the overhanging branches on #7 have been cut back such that a shot from the fairway is unimpeded.

If I am wrong about that, you win.

DMoriarty

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Trees at Merion that matter
« Reply #5 on: October 05, 2012, 04:29:54 PM »
JSlonis,

I think the overhanging branches on #7 have been cut back such that a shot from the fairway is unimpeded.

If I am wrong about that, you win.

Perhaps it depends upon one's definition of "unimpeded."

Golf history can be quite interesting if you just let your favorite legends go and allow the truth to take you where it will.
--Tom MacWood (1958-2012)

JSlonis

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Trees at Merion that matter
« Reply #6 on: October 05, 2012, 06:46:44 PM »
Chip,

That's good to hear if they've been cut back. I've had and have seen a few appraoch shots from the right edge of the fairway be blocked out a bit. I don't have to tell you that having to hit some sort of punch cut shot isn't the ideal play for that great greensite.

Terry Lavin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Trees at Merion that matter
« Reply #7 on: October 05, 2012, 08:08:16 PM »
There are not, nor should there be, any necessary pine trees at Merion. None.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2012, 08:13:46 PM by Terry Lavin »
Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people.  H.L. Mencken

Mike Sweeney

Re: Trees at Merion that matter
« Reply #8 on: October 05, 2012, 08:45:01 PM »
There are not, nor should there be, any necessary pine trees at Merion. None.

http://www.dcnr.state.pa.us/forestry/commontr/

Willie_Dow

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Trees at Merion that matter
« Reply #9 on: October 06, 2012, 10:45:42 AM »
Chip - The tree I miss at Merion is the Austrian Pine (Pinus nigra), which I believe is an Ontario Tree with three needles.

The one that bothered me most was on the corner of the "ladies aid" on #17, to the right of the front tee at #15.

Greenie took it down to allow the opening of the back tee on #15.

Now the big hitters will go for that corner off the tee at #17 to afford a good look at the pin on the green.

I remember how Jack hated those trees on the right side of the quarry in 1981, when it was a much more difficult approach than today.

Willie_Dow

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Re: Trees at Merion that matter
« Reply #10 on: October 06, 2012, 10:55:49 AM »
Sorry!  That's the right side of #16.

ChipOat

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Re: Trees at Merion that matter
« Reply #11 on: October 08, 2012, 11:30:54 AM »
JSlonis,

I agree completely.

Terry Lavin,

Since we obviously disagree, please tell me what you would put in place of the "Necessary Trees" that I cited besides deep rough in order to maintain the same degree of difficulty on those holes.

Also, the three big trees between #'s 2 and 5 are effective "punishers" of the big hook off the second tee.  Without them, the recovery back to #2 fairway would be much easier.  How will you remedy that when one or all of them ultimately die - as we know they must?

Bill Dow,

I remember feeling vindicated in 1981 when none other than Jack Nicklaus supported my opinion re: the trees on the top of the quarry.  Even back then (before GCA), I knew Stupid Trees when I saw them.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2012, 11:39:39 AM by chipoat »

Willie_Dow

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Trees at Merion that matter
« Reply #12 on: October 08, 2012, 08:15:27 PM »
So Chip, after #16 has lost its degree of difficulty since the last Open, what are the obstacles we can offer to regain lts former position ?

Bradley Anderson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Trees at Merion that matter
« Reply #13 on: October 09, 2012, 07:14:19 AM »
Judging from various photos taken from the tenth tee it appears that it would be a much better hole if the trees in front of the tee were removed to allow for working the ball. The trees on the left appear to be blocking the long ball hitter from going for the green. It would be one of the most amazing shots in golf if someone could actually hold it on that green.

« Last Edit: October 09, 2012, 07:24:33 AM by Bradley Anderson »

JESII

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Trees at Merion that matter
« Reply #14 on: October 09, 2012, 08:51:15 AM »
Bradley,

While that tree looks to be dead, and I'm always one for an open vista...reaching that green will take just a little bit of ability to work the ball. I think the lefties will have a considerable advantage on the 10th because it'll be easier to hit a controlled high cut than high hook. Wiothout the tree there's no challenge/decision assuming the bunkers have rakes...now if they remove the rakes for the week there will be some decision making...

Terry Lavin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Trees at Merion that matter
« Reply #15 on: October 09, 2012, 09:01:49 AM »
chipoat,

My disagreement is species related, not strategy related. Evev though conifers grow in that area, I can't believe that they should be planted on a golf course in Philly. Planting of a tree for strategic purposes (or designing a hole around an important existing tree) is certainly done by many architects, but my impression is that these pines were added over time by grounds committees. Am I wrong about this?  Wouldn't be the first time!
Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people.  H.L. Mencken

JMEvensky

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Trees at Merion that matter
« Reply #16 on: October 09, 2012, 10:24:03 AM »
Regarding the picture of 10 tee,how long is this hole from this tee box and what's the carry over that left side bunker?

JESII

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Trees at Merion that matter
« Reply #17 on: October 09, 2012, 10:27:34 AM »
Maybe 315 or 320.

Maybe 240 or 250.

Straight line to the front of the green is maybe 280 or 285.

JMEvensky

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Trees at Merion that matter
« Reply #18 on: October 09, 2012, 10:35:35 AM »
Maybe 315 or 320.

Maybe 240 or 250.

Straight line to the front of the green is maybe 280 or 285.

grazie

ChipOat

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Trees at Merion that matter
« Reply #19 on: October 09, 2012, 10:39:08 AM »
Terry,

The (important) three big trees between #'s 2 and 5 have always been there.  They just grew from small to big.

I do know that the trees in the left rough on #8 were planted by a Green Committee Chair in the 1950's.

The genesis of the bigger one's at the top of the hill on #4 are less clear.  As they are taller, that implies an earlier planting - possibly by Flynn or Joe Valentine, but I don't really know.

Since Flynn re-routed the first hole in 1929, I will give him credit for the right side trees as they are quite tall.  The trees down the left side appear to be from about the same period as those on #8 - the mid-1950's.

The trees on the right of #15 green are as tall as those on #1, so I will credit those to Flynn/Valentine as well.  Others may know better.

The trees on #7 turned out to be outside the club's property line when they surveyed in order to build the post-WWII fence.  They actually belong to the homeowner whose property is adjacent to the course.  That is why they often become overhanging as JSlonis described.  I believe one of the many successful negotiations the club has had with its neighbors in preparation for the Open was to cut them back at Merion's expense.

I despise trees that create problems from the fairway (i.e. Stupid Trees), but I prefer trees to deep rough as bogey makers any day.

Bill Dow,

First, for mere mortals, the 16th hole is plenty tough enough - even with a wide fairway and an unimpeded route to the green once those quarry trees came down.

As for the U.S. Open contestants, the narrow fairway and deep rough will require precision off the tee - layup hole or not.  Also, we both know that the quarry has been allowed to become almost completely grown in with Scotch Broom such that a ball hit in there is now 99% certain to be lost.  

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