Forecaddies

[Emile Bonfiglio]

In the next few weeks I'm playing Tetherow (Bend Or) again, likely as a mid week single. The course requires you to have a forecaddie if you are not a member. I understand the need for a forecaddie in many circumstances, this just doesn't seem like one.  Also as a single, I don't want him to feel like his my looper for the day or need to treat me as such.

Am I out of line if I call an ask not to have one?

[John Kavanaugh]

Sadly golfers can not be trusted to take care of a course when sent out without a member or forecaddie.  Is it wrong for you to ask, of course not.  While you are at it why not ask for the cart girl and bag boys to stay home too.  I hear employment is strong in Bend and I'm sure they all could use a day off on your special day.  I mean really, what good are any of em?

If you are a single why not have him carry your bag as a real caddie? 

[John Kavanaugh]

It is not the obligation of a greens fee paying visitor at a club to boost the town's employment rates. If the service is not required, why be forced to pay for it? I find it hard to believe that the behaviour of visiting golfers is so poor as to require the taking of what is effectively a chaparone. Sounds a bit like gouging to me.

I agree completely and always ask not to have a forecaddie.  It was just recently brought to my attention that the forecaddie's primary job is to protect the course.  Knowing golfers like I do I get that.

Last forecaddie I had I paid $120 after nine holes and begged him to go home.  Every hole he would go 180 yds out and stand where I had to hit over his head.  When I asked him to go 280 yds out he said sure and went 180 again.  We could not come to a compromise. 

[John Kavanaugh]

What's the deal with Tetherow anyway?  It doesn't look private at all and says you can play three top 100 courses in the Stay and Play package.  They even have a link to sub $100 rounds.

http://tetherow.com/

[Dave McCollum]

I stopped by Tetherow on my way to Bandon.  I didn’t have time to play.  They were very nice and let me take a cart around the course in a cart and take pictures.  No charge.  I was so amazed by the contour of the greens that afterwards I asked the pro on duty “does anyone play this course for the first time and take less than 40 putts?”  He didn’t answer the question.  He just said “that’s why we require a forecaddie.”

A year later I heard somebody call the course “Deathrow.”

[Tommy Williamsen]

I have always felt that I play by the house rules.  Take the forecaddie.

[Emile Bonfiglio]

I stopped by Tetherow on my way to Bandon.  I didn’t have time to play.  They were very nice and let me take a cart around the course in a cart and take pictures.  No charge.  I was so amazed by the contour of the greens that afterwards I asked the pro on duty “does anyone play this course for the first time and take less than 40 putts?”  He didn’t answer the question.  He just said “that’s why we require a forecaddie.”

A year later I heard somebody call the course “Deathrow.”

The only thing I felt I gained from my forecaddie was an understanding of the routing for that goofy ride over the bridge and how to cut through some of the vacant lots to get to holes a bit faster.  I got nothing more than that, certainly no help on the greens.  In fact I lost a ball in the fairway on 16 and he didn't know where it possibly could have gone.

I would like to state that i don't think this course is worth the $99 dollar price you can get right now. I got a Google Offer (like Groupon) for $50 for $100 to use on golfhub.com which Tetherow uses for extra tee times. So I think the course is worth a round at $50 but even the extra $20 for the forecaddie tip starts to cross the tipping point for me.

[John Kavanaugh]

Emile,

It would be perfectly fair and honest for you to tell your forecaddie that you only have $20 for a tip before the round ever starts. He should pull up lame and you will both be happy. $20 per man is fine as a foresome but is not worth the mans time as a single.

[Emile Bonfiglio]

That was my reasoning behind contacting the club prior to playing and explaining the situation, especially since I have played there several times before. I'm all for having a single caddie on the bag at certain times and on certain course, this just isn't one of them.

[jeffwarne]

Is this a joke?


You're going to a private club that "requires forecaddies for unaccompanied guests"
You're playing on a $50 coupon
you're a single
You don't want to take the forecaddy
and if you do you're going to give him $20.........
you're below minimum wage if you don't warm up and play in 3 hours

[Emile Bonfiglio]

Is this a joke?


You're going to a private club that "requires forecaddies for unaccompanied guests"
You're playing on a $50 coupon
you're a single
You don't want to take the forecaddy
and if you do you're going to give him $20.........
you're below minimum wage if you don't warm up and play in 3 hours

Not a joke, its a serious question to a unique situation....

I don't want to waste a persons time being a forecaddie for a single golfer, nor do I wish to pay the typical $75-$100 I would give him for his service because I happen to be alone.

I don't know what he is making from the club during that time, if anything. But per the website it says tips should be $15-20 per player. My discounted rate has nothing to do with the caddie, it simply is one of the factors luring me to a course I think is worth about that to play in general.

This club is a public/private mix...if this were a completely private course, this conversation does not happen.

[jeffwarne]

Is this a joke?


You're going to a private club that "requires forecaddies for unaccompanied guests"
You're playing on a $50 coupon
you're a single
You don't want to take the forecaddy
and if you do you're going to give him $20.........
you're below minimum wage if you don't warm up and play in 3 hours

Not a joke, its a serious question to a unique situation....

I don't want to waste a persons time being a forecaddie for a single golfer, nor do I wish to pay the typical $75-$100 I would give him for his service because I happen to be alone.

I don't know what he is making from the club during that time, if anything. But per the website it says tips should be $15-20 per player. My discounted rate has nothing to do with the caddie, it simply is one of the factors luring me to a course I think is worth about that to play in general.

I get it now.
Just call the club and explain your dilemna, without mentioning you'd prefer not to have a forecaddie.
Perhaps they can pair you, or perhaps the caddie is already being paid a wage as well, or perhaps they may suggest you don't have to take one,
They might surprise you the way they did Dave

[John Kavanaugh]

Oh, and BTW, Barney ... I can't let that nonsense you threw out there go unchecked.  The purpose of a forecaddie is not to take care of the course. That is - and always has been - the player's responsibility.

This was told to me by the Director of Golf at the most perfectly conditioned course I have ever played.  I've played there both with and without forecaddies. He has a point based on my own observations on how golfers act when at a resort.

[Garland Bayley]

I stopped by Tetherow on my way to Bandon.  I didn’t have time to play.  They were very nice and let me take a cart around the course in a cart and take pictures.  No charge.  I was so amazed by the contour of the greens that afterwards I asked the pro on duty “does anyone play this course for the first time and take less than 40 putts?”  He didn’t answer the question.  He just said “that’s why we require a forecaddie.”

A year later I heard somebody call the course “Deathrow.”

I played the course and took well under 40 putts, and I don't take reads from the caddie.

[Garland Bayley]

Emile,

Now that I have read and understand that you have played there several times before, you are perfectly correct in asking to play without the forecaddie, and paying extra for one.

For those that think this is a private club, it is one in name only. They cannot fill a membership and have always allowed unaccompanied outside play. At best it could be considered semi-private. Furthermore, they are overpriced for what they offer as a golf course IMO.

When I played it with my hacker friend, we played in 3 hours, and the forecaddie made out like a bandit with a good tip. I didn't mind, because he was a truly good guy in a truly good profession (caddying was for extra income.)

[Bill Seitz]

For those that think this is a private club, it is one in name only. They cannot fill a membership and have always allowed unaccompanied outside play. At best it could be considered semi-private. Furthermore, they are overpriced for what they offer as a golf course IMO.

Yeah, not many private clubs tout their status as one of the "best courses you can play!" On their website.

[Brett_Morrissy]

Can I ask you Northerners, I would have thought it a good idea for a mandatory fore caddie for each group for the first time players. Pace of play, directions, lost balls, help to rake a few bunkers, tend a flag, etc.

Takes a bit of the pressure off the first time player at the course, hopefully, with the right caddy, allows for more enjoyable round of golf?

[Kris Shreiner]

 While  mandating a "forecaddie" for just a single seems strange, it is basically the facility wanting players to have a caddie out there to help them in a variety of ways. When the caddie service is poor, which can often be the case...it IS a waste! The facility wanting a caddie dynamic needs to make the INVESTMENT in hiring and supporting an individual of caliber(or several staff) to run and sustain a quality product. Mediocre caddie service annoys and frustrates players and is a HUGE negative that must be avoided...it hurts the facility more than it helps.

For those that don't wish to take a caddie...you can call and hope they waive the requirement ...or play elsewhere. It's really that simple.

Cheers,
Kris

[Rich Goodale]

It is not the obligation of a greens fee paying visitor at a club to boost the town's employment rates. If the service is not required, why be forced to pay for it? I find it hard to believe that the behaviour of visiting golfers is so poor as to require the taking of what is effectively a chaparone. Sounds a bit like gouging to me.

I agree completely and always ask not to have a forecaddie.  It was just recently brought to my attention that the forecaddie's primary job is to protect the course.  Knowing golfers like I do I get that.

Last forecaddie I had I paid $120 after nine holes and begged him to go home.  Every hole he would go 180 yds out and stand where I had to hit over his head.  When I asked him to go 280 yds out he said sure and went 180 again.  We could not come to a compromise. 

Great story, John, but as you get older you'll be thankful for that forecaddie at 180.....

[Scott Sander]

JK-

Coincidentally enough, the last forecaddie I had was at Victoria National.  A fine young man in the usual Southern Indiana template: good golfer, smoker, Mennonite...

At any rate, he kept me several times from walking off into oblivion, and for that I wa$ grateful. 
As unaccompanied guests in that environment, we had no business being out there without a map, so I'm glad we had a walking, talking one.

Question - how important are forecaddieing opportunities when it comes to retaining good loopers at the club?  I'd imagine there's a lot of idle time, so extra revenue between full loops would seem useful. 

[John Kavanaugh]

Shivas,

I really do hate being such a cynic but I will never buy in to the idea that non-members of a course care as much as members.  What is even odder is that when green fees get to $300+ the visitors begin to feel so entitled that they care even less about divot replacement or pace of play.

On another note I enjoy the fact that where I am a member they force unaccompanied guests to take caddies.  More than once the caddies have been the ones to inform the group that they need to let us play through.  I'm sure even more than that the caddies have protected the structure of the golf course itself.  

I've played the game now for 44 years and in that time have played with or observed closely over 5000 golfers.  Of that number I would trust approximately 100 to take care of a course as an unaccompanied guest as well alone as if they were observed by staff.  That's 2% for the architect types out there.

[Greg Tallman]

As one who is considering putting together a forecaddie program at a resort facility I can only offer this - If it is not made mandatory it does not work.

1. Emplioyee retention would be impossible
2. Qualiity of forecaddy would be terrible

You either do it or you do not. I have spoken to virtually every top resort and to a person they confirmed my thoughts on how the program has to be built and offered.

[Greg Tallman]

Shivas,

I really do hate being such a cynic but I will never buy in to the idea that non-members of a course care as much as members.  What is even odder is that when green fees get to $300+ the visitors begin to feel so entitled that they care even less about divot replacement or pace of play. Absoluetly true for the vast majority.

On another note I enjoy the fact that where I am a member they force unaccompanied guests to take caddies.  More than once the caddies have been the ones to inform the group that they need to let us play through.  I'm sure even more than that the caddies have protected the structure of the golf course itself. They can be used in a variety of ways to improve the experience for not only those for whom they are working but other players on the course that day.

I've played the game now for 44 years and in that time have played with or observed closely over 5000 golfers.  Of that number I would trust approximately 100 to take care of a course as an unaccompanied guest as well alone if they were observed by staff.  That's 2% for the architect types out there. I would not put the number quite that low but it is alarming nonetheless.

[John Kavanaugh]

One of the hidden values of membership is that you are not required to take a forecaddie.  I would pay more not to have one than be forced to take one along.  It's kinda like the car salesman who insists on coming along for a test drive.  It is a deal breaker for me.

[Emile Bonfiglio]

Greg-

It seems to me that at a resort the advantage of a forecaddie, especially on your course with many photo stops, is the ability to increase the speed of the rounds. The downside is the increased cost on an already expensive venture.

There is an odd entitlement when spending big $$ on around. I think that people feel that if they are spending that much on golf that included in that price is someone on the grounds keeping crew to do that for them after hours.

Why don't you just hire a couple more security guards like you have on #6. That guy certainly has free time on his hand he could fill/replace some divots