[Tommy Williamsen]

I have played PV half a dozen times.  The course keeps you on your toes all the way around.  There are a few tee shots that don't require as much diligent thought, but other than that it is very tough.  I always look forward to playing there but it can be nerve wracking because a double bogey is always one shot away.  The only time my round was fun was with my son when he was 16.  He was one over after five and four over after 6 on his way to an 82. 

[Ted Sturges]

I thought it was great fun playing there.  Though it is hard to shoot a "good" score, the driving corridors are very wide.  I play to a 6 and though I never broke 80, I played 3 rounds during a weekend visit and used the same golf ball for all 54 holes (something my friend Ward above would likely NEVER do at Victoria National).  There are several "thrilling" shots to hit, being there is a buzz, and for a student of golf course architecture, visiting that place is a graduate level course for sure.  I rate the experience a "10".

TS

[K. Krahenbuhl]

The lowest score that I've posted in the last 12 months was at Pine Valley.  Even during rounds when I didn't play as well I've had nothing but fun at Pine Valley.

[George Pazin]

I feel sad for anyone who experiences the tension and thinks it's not fun.

It reminds me of Jack and Tom at Turnberry, when one turned to the other, nearing the end, and said, this is what it's all about, and the response was, you bet (obviously paraphrasing). Seems like they were having fun, and under the most extreme tension possible (for golf).

How can playing an enjoyable course with loads of tension on every shot not be fun? Does fun for such folks mean merely screwing around with no consequences to anything? That's not fun for me, that's boring.

[ward peyronnin]

Definition of FUN
1: what provides amusement or enjoyment; specifically : playful often boisterous action or speech <full of fun (Websters)

Seems to me this is what a list of "fun" golf courses contemplates which is not the same thing recent posts allude to.

No need to feel sorry for me pal...I didn't say I didnt enjoy it I'm just not at the level of closet masochism that prompts to say it is fun

[George Pazin]

Definition of FUN
1: what provides amusement or enjoyment; specifically : playful often boisterous action or speech <full of fun (Websters)

Seems to me this is what a list of "fun" golf courses contemplates which is not the same thing recent posts allude to.

No need to feel sorry for me pal...I didn't say I didnt enjoy it I'm just not at the level of closet masochism that prompts to say it is fun

Please explain to me the difference between enjoying something and not finding it fun. I've been thinking about things in my life, and I can't think of a single thing that would explain the difference.

[ward peyronnin]

" playful often boisterous action or speech "

That is the difference George. And relaxation as opposed to tension is implicit to be playful. Focus requires a certain tension. Perhaps your are far more zen than the average North American and don't really care how you play or how much relative work it takes. I have learned to play my course and have fun but not as an expectation. The post was about fun golf courses and directed at a large audience not necessarily enjoyable ones.

[JESII]

I may be a dick but I hate playing golf with people that display..."playful often boisterous action or speech"...except for the occassional hole-in-one...which I've seen three of at Pine Valley!

The reality is, Pine Valley can ruin a score as quick as any course I know so your fun factor is purely dependent on your attitude going in.

Pat,

By all accounts you're great fun to play golf with, I'd suggest you take a match play approach to PV next time and see how much fun it can be. Every shot is good. Every shot is interesting. Almost every shot is challenging.

[George Pazin]

" playful often boisterous action or speech "

That is the difference George. And relaxation as opposed to tension is implicit to be playful. Focus requires a certain tension. Perhaps your are far more zen than the average North American and don't really care how you play or how much relative work it takes. I have learned to play my course and have fun but not as an expectation. The post was about fun golf courses and directed at a large audience not necessarily enjoyable ones.

That's an interesting distinction. I don't think I've ever displayed "playful often boisterous action or speech", yet I've certainly had plenty of fun on a golf course. I even had a hole in one that was relatively quiet, yet my friends and I saw the whole thing.

To me, the tension is part of the fun. The first time I ever met anyone from the site was at the Inniscrone outing in 2001. My hands were literally shaking on the first tee, flanked by all of the larger than life figures on here, and I topped my tee shot about 50-75 yards. I recovered from there and had a solid round, full of ups and down; never once, even during the shakes, did I feel I wasn't having fun. I certainly care how I play, especially that day, I just can't relate to enjoyment not correlating with fun.

My one experience with Pat Mucci on a golf course was similar. I was fortunate enough to join a friend at Mountain Ridge, one of Pat's favs. On the 8th hole, we ran into Pat down in the fairway. He commented on my drive - my best of the day - "that's a big drive." I had about 180 into the green, felt great after Pat's comment, and proceeded to cold top my 6 iron, something I (almost) never do. Even so, I was having fun, big time.

I wouldn't go so far as to say I only have fun on a golf course; I've played plenty of penalty strewn courses that weren't fun (though they were better than working at my sweatshop...). But I just can't imagine an enjoyable experience not being fun; that's a game with which I'm unfamiliar.

[Sean Leary]

Want to guess who I was told was not welcome the next year ?

Being on a knife edge the whole way around for fear of not being invited back, what an awful experience.  Not welcome 'cos the guy was probably trying too hard on his big day out?? Wasn't cool enough? Tell him to come over here to the UK and he'll be OK - he'll always be welcome and won't be on "trial" every time he plays a round of golf.

or he simply wasn't fun to play with and the guy didn't want to play with him again. That can happen anywhere, not just PV..

[Joel_Stewart]

Because of its notorious reputation of difficulty, I would find it difficult to see how GD could put it on a fun list, even if it belongs, which I think it does.

The problem is most GD panelists (as well as any panelist) only gets lucky to play it once.  If you have the chance to play it multiple times, it becomes more fun and more interesting. 

[Ed Brzezowski]

Want to guess who I was told was not welcome the next year ?

Being on a knife edge the whole way around for fear of not being invited back, what an awful experience.  Not welcome 'cos the guy was probably trying too hard on his big day out?? Wasn't cool enough? Tell him to come over here to the UK and he'll be OK - he'll always be welcome and won't be on "trial" every time he plays a round of golf.

or he simply wasn't fun to play with and the guy didn't want to play with him again. That can happen anywhere, not just PV..

He pissed off folks in Scotland too. He was my best friend, recently passed away from a terrible disease. But the poor soul was a tormented player. We had to switch caddies at Prestwick because the guy was inadequate in his opinion. Shot even on the back when he carried my bag.

[Geoffrey_Walsh]

The problem is most GD panelists (as well as any panelist) only gets lucky to play it once.  If you have the chance to play it multiple times, it becomes more fun and more interesting.  

+1

Joel has it exactly right.  The more often you play it, the more fun it becomes.  This first time out is exciting but can be extremely stressfull and you really don't know how to play the course.

[Anthony Butler]

I shot 83 the only time I played PV. Considering how i hit the ball, on any other course I would have been disappointed to shoot more than 75. I'm sure it gets easier when you know the course. but it did appear to me that the line between success and disaster is razor thin at PV.

As much as it pains me to agree with Patrick Mucci, I'm not sure that level of tension with almost every shot would appeal to me on a regular basis.

[archie_struthers]

 

It's a hoot .   So much fun to play and enjoy the whole golf experience.  It's not a course where you are going to shoot  your career best. But it's not happening at Portrush or Royal County Down either,   

The shots are so much fun , and can be traumatic. It's all about your approach to the game.

[Brian Colbert]

Pat,

I think tournament golf at PV is different.  Colbert has played PV in both tournaments and liesure (as have others on the site).  Maybe one of those guys will comment.

Mark,

Everyone has their own concept of "fun"
I can only relate my experiences and perspectives.

You may recall a post where I mentioned that one fellow in my group made a medal play bet with me on the first tee.
After a disastrous first hole where his margin of error was minimal, he called the bet off.
His score was ruined before he finished the 1st hole.

That can happen on any and every hole at Pine Valley, and the golfer has to be constantly vigilant, mentally and physically.

There's a constant tension that tends to diminish the "fun" aspect of playing there.

More than "fun", I think the word, "thrilling" is more appropriate.
I say that in the context of the view of the holes, the challenging shots faced and the exuberance associated with successfully executing those shots.

Pat,

Playing Pine Valley in the Philadelphia Open (stroke play) is one of the single greatest thrills I have ever had as a competitive golfer. To say that playing one of the best and most difficult golf courses in the entire world in a tournament is not fun is absolutely ludicrous. It is the single best golf course I have ever played in competition. I made three double bogeys in 36 holes and it didn't even matter to me. I was so happy just to be out there playing the course. I could play Pine Valley every day for the rest of my life and enjoy it the day before I died.

[jim_lewis]

I'm with Patrick on this one. The overall experience at Pine Valley is unsurpassed. It is a thrill to be there. The course becomes fun after you walk off the 18th green. Prior to that it is 4 hours of  dodging disaster. Reminds me of the first time I jumped out of a plane (in the army). Talk about being tense! As soon as I hit the ground and realized that I wasn't hurt, it became fun.

[Tim_Weiman]

I am with Pat Mucci. Pine Valley is many great things, but I wouldn't call it fun, at least not in the same sense as a place like North Berwick.

[JR Potts]

I developed the driver/3 wood yips off the tee during my two days there and had absolutely no fun playing golf.  I was so nervous/anxious/disappointed that I couldnt find a way to hit the 80 yard fairways.  As such, I loved being there but didn't have much fun.

Next time maybe....

[Patrick_Mucci]

Jim Sullvan,

I typically play match play at PV and enjoy the competition, the fellows I'm playing with, the experience, the course, our caddies and especially the unique "Rocky".  The banter, rivalry, jokes and jousting and entire experience are terrific.

But, to claim that the tee shots on #'s 5 and 14 are fun is beyond absurd.
They are daunting shots, shots fraught with disaster.
Even the tee shot on # 6, where we try to cut the corner has a good deal of tension associated with it.
Ditto the carry over HHA on # 7
A downhill, sidehill approach into # 8 is no laughing matter either.

Putts from above 4 and 8 O'Clock are no fun, they're tense and intense.
Try a 25 footer to a front hole location from above the hole on # 15.

After the round, it's easy to sit back and recount how much "fun" we've had, because the rigors of the day are behind us.

I've got fairly astute powers of observation and I haven't seen too many golfers laughing and having fun when they've hit disastrous shots or if they're faced with a shot that might produce disastrous results.

How many golfers, standing on the 5th and 14th tees are jumping with joy and overcome with levity  ?
I haven't seen any in the 48 years I've been playing there.

[Jason Thurman]

How many golfers, standing on the 5th and 14th tees are jumping with joy and overcome with levity  ?
I haven't seen any in the 48 years I've been playing there.

Pat Mucci,

Can you name five courses where you have seen players "jumping with joy and overcome with levity," not including immediately following shots holed from beyond 100 yards?

There are plenty of things I do for fun. Some I hope to do later tonight. I certainly won't be jumping with joy or overcome with levity though.

[David_Elvins]

I haven't seen any in the 48 years I've been playing there.

Pat,

Do you think your opinion will change once you get to know the course a bit better?   

Seriously though, tactically, how has your play on the course varied over the years? Are there any holes where you are still uncertain as to the way you want to play it? 

[JESII]

Pat,

I have been a vocal supporter of the "card and pencil" approach to golf because I don't think it has to include the slow play and dour attitude many on here tie to it. I want to post a score every time I play...but...it's just a game. No matter where you're playing or what it's for, it's just a game and the most fun part of the game is playing shots that are at the edge of your skill level and seeing if you can pull it off.

Your use of the toughest shots at Pine Valley as examples for it not being fun imply that easy shots are fun and I just don't believe that's your attitude. Like I said above, if you're "jumping for joy and overcome with levity" I probably don't want to play golf with you.

[Mark Chaplin]

My mate shot 74 off 3 on his second round including a double from the back edge on 2 having only rolled a yard off the green and ending up only four yards from the pin. He thought it fun and I found it great fun despite a little ping pong after missing the first pin high right.

Fun is about attitude not ability or the quality of the course, but then what do I know.

[Patrick_Mucci]

How many golfers, standing on the 5th and 14th tees are jumping with joy and overcome with levity  ?
I haven't seen any in the 48 years I've been playing there.

Pat Mucci,

Can you name five courses where you have seen players "jumping with joy and overcome with levity," not including immediately following shots holed from beyond 100 yards?

NGLA
GCGC
MAIDSTONE
SHINNECOCK
FIRESTONE. WEST

There are plenty of things I do for fun. Some I hope to do later tonight. I certainly won't be jumping with joy or overcome with levity though.

I guess that depends upon who your partner is 

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