[John Kavanaugh]

Is there really anything more fun than both hitting into and recovering from hazards?  I hole out of a hazard for eagle this week and it was ten times more fun than if from the center of the fairway.  You have to fear the loss of your ball to take joy in finding it.

[Mark McKeever]

John,

It certainly is fun finding your ball in a not so great area and thinking to yourself...."I can do this"

Mark

[Garland Bayley]

Fun means no ponds.

Imagine that, actually getting to hit recovery shots after bad shots. Beats the heck out of dropping a ball and failing away again.

If no ponds means easy, you are just playing the wrong pondless courses.

[Charlie_Bell]

Fun and good aren't mutually exclusive; they're complementary.

To wit:  Cabot Links = Fun + Good

I played it two weeks ago today, and it was... sublime.  Funderful.  Panoramazing.

[Tom Yost]

Is there really anything more fun than both hitting into and recovering from hazards?  I hole out of a hazard for eagle this week and it was ten times more fun than if from the center of the fairway.  You have to fear the loss of your ball to take joy in finding it.

For me, the true allure and spirit of the game lies in the possibility and hope of making up for a bad shot with a brilliantly executed recovery.

The golf course that presents itself with a continual set of challenges from which there is no possibility of recovery, where every miss results in a lost ball, double bogey or worse, is a course that is no fun.

Somewhere along the line, we have lost our way with the embrace of the idea that a course that doesn't met out a penalty for every wayward shot must be "easy."

[John Kavanaugh]

Fun means no ponds.

Imagine that, actually getting to hit recovery shots after bad shots. Beats the heck out of dropping a ball and failing away again.

If no ponds means easy, you are just playing the wrong pondless courses.

Garland,

Sorry but when I am forced to play with 22 handicappers I much prefer their wild ass shots find a pond rather than have to search the rough.  There is beauty in the immediacy of a splash, drop and move on.

[Carl Johnson]

. . . My quote, out of context, makes me look like an idiot.  I disagree - it does not make you look like an idiot. . . .  

My "fun" quote was specifically in reference to those Ballyneal-over-Sand Hills loyalists. . . . Never played either one.

Hence, the now infamous quote was born.

. . . One of my favorite courses in Nebraska is a little public track in Ogallala called West Winds.  It features a 95 yard par 3, a front that is totally different than the back, and the first hole is a par 3.  Tons of quirk throughout the place.  Short, and flat, and tons of FUN.  But nobody in their right mind is calling West Winds 'good' from an architectural standpoint. Golf dorks and architecture students alike are not going to fly in from all over the country to study West Winds. . . . it is an absolute blast to play.  Maybe they should fly in -- to learn how such a course can be a blast, and apply some of those principles elsewhere.  Sounds like we could use more of these kinds of courses.  By the way, looking at the course on Google Map's satellite view, I like it the way it fits into the squares among the circles in the squares.

. . . .

[Garland Bayley]

Fun means no ponds.

Imagine that, actually getting to hit recovery shots after bad shots. Beats the heck out of dropping a ball and failing away again.

If no ponds means easy, you are just playing the wrong pondless courses.

Garland,

Sorry but when I am forced to play with 22 handicappers I much prefer their wild ass shots find a pond rather than have to search the rough.  There is beauty in the immediacy of a splash, drop and move on.

Rough that requires any significant searching is just plain bad architecture or bad maintenance, so you have no point.

[John Kavanaugh]

Fun means no ponds.

Imagine that, actually getting to hit recovery shots after bad shots. Beats the heck out of dropping a ball and failing away again.

If no ponds means easy, you are just playing the wrong pondless courses.

Garland,

Sorry but when I am forced to play with 22 handicappers I much prefer their wild ass shots find a pond rather than have to search the rough.  There is beauty in the immediacy of a splash, drop and move on.

Rough that requires any significant searching is just plain bad architecture or bad maintenance, so you have no point.

That is a selfish attitude.

[Garland Bayley]

Fun means no ponds.

Imagine that, actually getting to hit recovery shots after bad shots. Beats the heck out of dropping a ball and failing away again.

If no ponds means easy, you are just playing the wrong pondless courses.

Garland,

Sorry but when I am forced to play with 22 handicappers I much prefer their wild ass shots find a pond rather than have to search the rough.  There is beauty in the immediacy of a splash, drop and move on.

Rough that requires any significant searching is just plain bad architecture or bad maintenance, so you have no point.

That is a selfish attitude.

And here I thought I was being generous in allowing lots of golfers to get around a course in a reasonable time. Selfish would be to belong to VN, have lots of ponds, and wish your playing partners hit into them. Talk about a boring course, boring setup, boring company.
 


 

[jeffwarne]

.  

.

I love FUN golf courses.  I am no rankings whore.  One of my favorite courses in Nebraska is a little public track in Ogallala called West Winds.  It features a 95 yard par 3, a front that is totally different than the back, and the first hole is a par 3.  Tons of quirk throughout the place.  Short, and flat, and tons of FUN.  But nobody in their right mind is calling West Winds 'good' from an architectural standpoint. Golf dorks and architecture students alike are not going to fly in from all over the country to study West Winds.  Nonetheless, it is an absolute blast to play.

I would disagree and after that review would seek such a course out.
"Tons of fun" and an "absolute blast" and you tell me it's not good?
I wouldn't study it (or any other course) I'd play and enjoy it.

[Jim Hoak]

Last time I checked, golf was a game, not life and death.  If it's not fun, why do it?  How can a course be good, but not fun?

[jeffwarne]

Last time I checked, golf was a game, not life and death.  If it's not fun, why do it?  How can a course be good, but not fun?

+1
conversely, and more to my point, how can a course be fun....., and not good?
Lots of people PLAYING golf (emphasis on play) ......for all the wrong reasons

[Sean_A]

Last time I checked, golf was a game, not life and death.  If it's not fun, why do it?  How can a course be good, but not fun?

Because I can acknowledge that my game isn't good enough to have much fun around a course.  Sometimes those courses are good and sometimes they aren't. 

Ciao

[Tom Yost]

I kind of get the idea where someone might read between the lines.  If the most someone can say about a course is "It was fun," there might be the thought that is wasn't good.   Much like the description of a blind date:  "She has a great personality."

Last time I checked, golf was a game, not life and death.  If it's not fun, why do it?  How can a course be good, but not fun?

What courses are very good, but not fun to play?

Pine Valley and Oakmont were mentioned as difficult tests, but are they not fun to play?  What top ranked courses are not fun?

[Jim Colton]

Interestingly, the Sept issue of Golf Digest ranks the most fun courses to play and Sand Hills ranks 4th in the private category.

[Kalen Braley]

Jim,

Excellent thread topic, thanks for starting this.

I guess for me, with fun being such a big standard in determining greatness on GCA.com, I remain confused as to why Jim Engh's courses get so much flack on this website.  I understand the criticism of not appearing natural or otherwise, I really do.  But in terms of having pure fun on the course, I can think of few courses I've played where this has been moreso than his courses.

Between his use of quirk like the 14th at Redlands Mesa, one-of-a-kind beautiful green placements like 11 at Black Rock, and wild greens like #3 at Lakota Canyon, it makes for terrific fun and very unique shot requirements on the course.  I really wish GCA.com was much more welcoming of him and his work.

[Doug Siebert]

Is there really anything more fun than both hitting into and recovering from hazards?  I hole out of a hazard for eagle this week and it was ten times more fun than if from the center of the fairway.  You have to fear the loss of your ball to take joy in finding it.

While I enjoy challenging shots and actually get rather bored on those rare days of "fairways and greens", every second I spend looking for a golf ball detracts from the fun.  If I wanted to look for stuff, I'd take a metal detector to the park or beach.  At least that way there's a chance of getting paid for all that walking around in circles.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Mike Sweeney,

Playing Southampton with Dr Gene was a lot of fun.

Everyone in our group had fun playing the course.

And, it's a terrific golf course....architecturally !

[Shane Wright]

Fun means no ponds.

Imagine that, actually getting to hit recovery shots after bad shots. Beats the heck out of dropping a ball and failing away again.

If no ponds means easy, you are just playing the wrong pondless courses.

Garland,

Sorry but when I am forced to play with 22 handicappers I much prefer their wild ass shots find a pond rather than have to search the rough.  There is beauty in the immediacy of a splash, drop and move on.

Rough that requires any significant searching is just plain bad architecture or bad maintenance, so you have no point.

Dear Lord, please do not pair me with Garland at Ballyneal, Sand Hills, Royal County Down, Muirfield, or Royal Portrush.

Thank you

[Rich Goodale]

There is not a golf course I have played which is not fun.  The very few times I have not had fun on a golf course was due to my playing companion(s) and not the course.

[Colin Macqueen]

Gentlemen,

To parrot Rich Goodale.

There is not a golf course I have played which is not fun.  The very few times I have not had fun on a golf course was due to my own incompetence and pathetic approach to failure whilst playing the gemme.

This crap attitude of mine has long been jettisoned and failure is now embraced as part and parcel of my game and so this mortal coil is now much leavened!

Cheers Colin

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