[Jim Colton]

I will say that typically when I hear a course is "more fun" than another, it typically means it's not as good.  

Discuss.

I will start by saying I like National more than Shinnecock, most likely because I find it to be more fun.

[Sam Morrow]

I don't know Jared but that's the first time I've ever heard that thought.

[Andy Shulman]

I completely disagree.  I think "fun" as it's used on GCA is for most folks a blend of fair and quirky.  Among courses profiled on GCA, I found Lawsonia to be one of the most fun courses I've every played.  I feel similarly about North Berwick, Taconic and Ballyhack.  On some of those courses, I played and scored well and on others I didn't, but in each case I found the challenges posed to be unique but doable.

For me, a guy who hits it 225 or so with my driver, I find courses that demand nothing but long, accurate shots to be neither fun nor good.

[Tim Bert]

I think that sometimes "fun" can equal easier but I
Have never equated fun with not as good.  I can't think of one of my favorite courses that doesn't also rank amongst the most fun courses I've played.

[Ben Sims]

Jim,

In many cases--not all (see: Oakmont and PV and a few others)--when I hear that a course is difficult, it typically means it isn't very inspired.  

Of course that statement is broad and designed to combat Jared's assertion, but in many ways it is true.  I think it is much, much tougher to design a "fun" course than a difficult one.  And oddly enough, good golfers tend to whine and moan about "fun" golf courses more than poor golfers complain about "difficult" golf courses.  Wonder why?

[Cory Brown]

If there is an inverse relationship of the amount of fun you have playing golf to the quality of the course then please sign me up to play all of the worlds worst courses.

[Sean Leary]

I actually think I understand what Jared was getting at. I have heard comments said about a course saying it wasn't a great course but it was fun. You can have a decent, fun course to play and have it not be considered particularly good or great. That is what I think he may have been getting at.  He also may have been getting at the not as challenging aspect, ie fun equals easy.

[Keith Doleshel]

Agree with what Tim, Cory, and Andy said.  Give me a "fun" course any day of the week, I'll be the judge whether or not it is "good."

[Sven Nilsen]

I think an aspect of fun is variety.  You can have the long, tough hole that is conquered by two strong shots alongside the short hole with the tricky green that can turn your 90 yard approach into a sure bogey if you end up in the wrong spot.  Playing a set of 18 holes that offers different challenges is a big part of the fun factor for me. 

[Mike Nuzzo]

The Old Course was fun.

I wonder where Jared's golf preference lies - fun/challenge/pretty

[Larry_Keltto]

Another data point, FWIW: Pennard sits atop my Most Fun list.

[Adrian_Stiff]

I can see the angle that Fun = Not a great golf course. Fun is probably associated more with easy and a look at the 'best lists' typically are the tough courses.

[jeffwarne]

I will say that typically when I hear a course is "more fun" than another, it typically means it's not as good.  

Discuss.

I will start by saying I like National more than Shinnecock, most likely because I find it to be more fun.

Not fun = not good IMHO.
i.e. Pennard over Bethpage Black every time.
to each his own.....

[David Davis]

When fun is the only word used, not great or amazing or some other slightly more powerful adjective I think I would understand it to mean forgiving, not necessarily easy and certainly not equaling no good.

[Sean_A]

Not generally, but I can see where fun would not equal good.  This would usually entail the stupid massive elevation shots encountered on land which should never have been made into a course.  Once a year a carting around and drinkin' some beers this sort of thing is fun.  Play it every week or month even and its a different story. 

I often think of fun courses as those which are not of championship difficulty and can be played to a very low score once in a while, but will often fllatter handicaps.  Often times when a course like this is thrown in on a trip it can be the favourite of the group BECAUSE they weren't beat up like every other day. 

Ciao

[Scott Warren]

What's fun to me? Having to think and use my imagination, watching the ball move on the ground and encountering variety. So perhaps this depends how you define "fun golf". The most fun courses I have played are also the best.

[Mark Pearce]

I'm afraid Jared threw this line into a first ever post that was, in reality, a bit of a rant.  I wonder if he'd really thought it through.  Royal Dornoch and Cypress Point are both great fun.  I guess Jared thinks that means they're not any good?

[Mac Plumart]

When I hear, "That course is a brutal test of golf."  I know that it is not fun and I'm not inclined to rush out to play it.

If as Max Behr said, the purpose of a golf course is to heighten the joy of living...then fun does, indeed, equal good...if not great.

[Mark McKeever]

I hope not!  A lot of people tell me Schuylkill is a very fun golf course...

Mark

[Dan Herrmann]

For 98% of us, golf is recreation.  I'm guessing that fun = good for, oh, about 98% of golfers.

[Ronald Montesano]

Bethpage Black championship tees~7300 yards = Brutal Challenge
Bethpage Black regular tees~6800 yards = Somewhat Brutal, Somewhat Fun
Bethpage Black forward tees~6200 yards = Fun

If Jared's statement is accompanied by a pause, a roll of the eyes, a shrug and a wink, then fun does not equal good. However...

[Adam Clayman]

If one associates difficult with quality, they could easily come to the above understanding.

But, when they were building SH, Ben Crenshaw responded to a question with, " Anyone can build a hard golf course, we're building a great one".

[Adrian_Stiff]

The problem with the word FUN is that everyones idea of fun is different. Some would find a brutal challenge fun, some people find climbing mountains fun or being whipped till they bleed. To the masses fun is almost certainly making a low score rather than a high one, so I suppose you could just continue that equation and say the best courses in the world are hard to score.

[jeffwarne]

I will say that typically when I hear a course is "more fun" than another, it typically means it's not as good.  

Discuss.

I will start by saying I like National more than Shinnecock, most likely because I find it to be more fun.

I hear this comparison a lot.
Both are great courses.
I happen to think Shinnecock is fun as well.
the redan 7th, the 9th, 10,11- many more great holes but a lot of fun holes.
I will say I was out with our Jr. interclub team yesterday and the fescue/bluestem was thinned out, beautiful and very playable.
Extreme heat may help this equation, but there definitely is concious maintenance involved.
There is no doubt this would add to the fun equation as it adds the element of recovery and increases the freedom in one's swing resulting in....
wait for it.........
more fun
my 12 year old son used the word fun at least 4 times when describing his experience at Shinnecock.

Bethpage could learn a lesson on courses setup from them.

and I disagree with Ronald on Bethpage being more fun at 6200 yards.(post 2002 Open setup)
still have the unplayable grass on both sides and ball searching slogs to deal with.
I personally would handle it by hitting 3 or 5 woods, or 2 irons all day to avoid the hay from the shorter tees
.........but that's not fun.(to me)

as Adrian says, everyone has a different definition of fun.
If I find a course no fun, I don't consider it great.
to each his own.

[Jeff_Brauer]

Great topic for some deep thought!

Of course, both are good, and sometimes every individual golfer looks for one or the other, no?

But I have always thought along the lines of Scott Warren - if a course allows or presents the opportunity to play a wide variety of "non standard" shots, to me its fun.  These include the Cape or Challenge Tee shots, maybe an island green, shots off rolling lies, etc. (the thrilling kind) and also the run up and dainty chips, and occasional roller coaster long putts.  Obviously wind and fast and firm fit in that for me.

Part of the fun formula to me is that if I try and miss, I am not making 8 on every hole.  In other words, the hazards are fairly benign, shallow sand, vs OB, etc.  Not all the time, just most times.  Because being able to tell the story of playing out of the Da bunker at PV for instance, is also a great amount of fun.

Perhaps the gauge of fun is really how many bar stories the course tends to generate over the normal course?

For the record, to me, both Shinny and NGLA are fun to the max.  Maybe NGLA is a bit more fun, even if some bunkers are deep.  But, the museum  piece quality of the CBM architecture kick it to a narrow fun win for me.  Both ask you constantly to pick a line off the tee, and there is quite a bit of hang time between hitting and knowing the result for sure.

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