[John Kavanaugh]

Is there something beyond the economy to explain why the architecture in China was far more exciting than what we are seeing in London?  Does the UK have an aversion to great modern architecture?  Is this at all reflected in the golf courses being built in China vs Europe?

The Olympic Stadiums aside just compare the Natatoria.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Aquatics_Centre

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beijing_National_Aquatics_Center

[Tony_Muldoon]

Yes John, surprise surprise the London games are being done on a lesser budget than Peking.  I can’t help but wonder why you are showing an interest in this as London is not in Scotland.

The Aquatics Centre you picture has ‘wings’ added to provide additional seating for the Olympics. Once they are removed it’s a stunning building. Already in the flesh it’s a beautiful sight. It was designed by the Bagdad born, Londoner, Zelda Hadid. I will be there on the2nd September.

Another outstanding bulding is the Velodrome.  Although the shape seems  similar the scale and the materials used set them apart. It was designed by the London based, all world pain in the arse, Michael Hopkins.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Velopark 

The main stadium is a little disappointing  and was cost engineered downward. It was designed by the American specialist in stadiums HOK (who have recently renamed themselves).
The ‘Sculpture’ is an all galaxy abomination and hopefully its destruction can one day be witnessed from space.

The landscaping (My specialty) is very exciting. Two professors from Sheffield have responded to challenges ,low budget, easily maintained, Colourful, will be good for 50 years including anticipated global warming, with a great deal of panache.

 I look forward to finally getting inside the village and seeing these up close.  I live less than a mile away and will see the benefits of the new park next year.

[Josh Tarble]

Tony hit it.  The London stadiums were specifically designed to be downscaled after the games.  They may be a little less exciting than the Beijing stadiums but the Beijing "bird's nest" has sat empty pretty much entirely since the Olympics left because it's so large and overkill for smaller scale use.

Maybe it relates to Chinese courses in the fact they are trying to build "the best and biggest" right now and not focusing on courses that are designed to help grow the game - similar to the Rio Olympic course. No foresight to what's best for the future.  (All speculation, being slightly familiar of some Chinese courses and never played them)

[Howard Riefs]

The Wall Street Journal says it better than I can:

"...But while there are a few architectural showpieces, London has not tried to compete with Beijing. Compare the main stadiums for the two Games and that is very apparent: Beijing's lavishly overengineered "Bird's Nest" stadium, designed by the architectural firm Herzog & de Meuron with artist Ai Weiwei, was built purely to impress and with no long-term role in mind. In contrast, the skeletal-white Olympic Stadium in London was designed—by sports specialist Populous with architect Sir Peter Cook—as a minimal structure. Its circling 'crown' of ring beams is actually made of sections of ready-made steel gas pipe bolted together.

Some hankered after a flashier stadium to rival Beijing's, but a firm policy was established once the bid was won in 2005: Mindful of the legacy of neglect common among many earlier Olympic-host cities, no white-elephant buildings were allowed for London."

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303754904577532921054250902.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

The corollary to the Olympic Stadiums built in Beijing, Athens and Montreal is Atlanta. Centennial Olympic Stadium was quickly retrofitted into Turner Field.  Not a great baseball stadium, but it's a good use of the structure.

The International Herald Tribune revisits Beijing's Olympic venues. The "Birds Nest" has been previously used as a playland called Happy Ice and Snow Season. The "Water Cube" swimming arena is now a recreational water park. 

http://rendezvous.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/07/15/ruin-porn-the-aftermath-of-the-beijing-olympics/
 

[Rich Goodale]

John

The Brits think they wrote the book(s) on art and architecture, but they do not have a clue....

Pajo

[Bob_Huntley]

Rich,

Having spent the early part of my life in England, I must say that I agree with you and Charles, the Prince of Wales, that English architecture post WW11 is an abomination.

Bob

[Tony_Muldoon]

John

The Brits think they wrote the book(s) on art and architecture, but they do not have a clue....

Pajo

Rich
I typed out a long response mentioning amongst many other things Ruskin, Clarke, Pevsner, Stonehenge and the Serpentine Pavilion. I then recalled that the best writing should be strongly edited.  Thus my considered reply is

"What utter bollocks!"

Your affectionate friend

Tony.

[Mike Nuzzo]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Aquatics_Centre

Temporary or not, I've never seen a stadium where you can't see the fans on the other side.

[Matthew Hunt]

I suppose it a matter of taste but personally think the Beijing Aquatics venue looks horrific.

[Wayne_Kozun]

I visited the Bird's Nest in Beijing after the games and I must say that the facilities seem rather spartan compared to what I am used to here in North America where there is lots of private boxes and high end food outlets within the stadiums.  Perhaps in that way China is still a communist country. 

[Mike Hendren]

Barney, after solving this issue, please tackle the reasoning behind pedestrian architecture for modern Baptist churches vis-a-vis other Protestant denominations.   

Bogey

[Jason Thurman]

Beijing's hosting of the Olympics was also essentially its announcement of its arrival as a top world city, and of China as a top world country. I've only been alive since 1984, but I can't recall any other country's image changing so drastically via a two-week sports and entertainment event. The Bejing Olympics were exciting competitively, but even more so culturally.

The only footage from China I can recall seeing prior to the Olympics is that from Tiananmen Square. China needed to introduce its image, and it also had a strong economy, so it spared little expense in constructing some truly iconic venues. The Bird's Nest and the Water Cube are both unforgettable images of the games.

London, on the other hand, is part of the old British Empire. These Olympics will not change the way the world views England even as much as the royal wedding last year did, unless they're a total debacle for some reason. As a result, the London Olympics are more about simple economics.

The Beijing Olympics' architecture showed what would happen if someone gave Mike Strantz an unlimited budget to design his first course, while the London Olympics are more like what happens when somone pays much less to get a course designed by one of Jack Nicklaus' associates and stamp Jack's name on it. In the former case, it's about art and making an impression. In the latter, it's about ROI.

[John Kavanaugh]

All this talk about budget but yet the London Aquatic Center costs more than 3 times as much to build as Beijing's.  Perhaps the strangest thing of all is that in a democracy the London Olympics is running more than 100% over budget where in communist China they were only 4%.

[Mark Pearce]

All this talk about budget but yet the London Aquatic Center costs more than 3 times as much to build as Beijing's. 

You appear to be an intelligent man.  Perhaps you could think of a few reasons this might be the case.

[John Kavanaugh]

All this talk about budget but yet the London Aquatic Center costs more than 3 times as much to build as Beijing's. 

You appear to be an intelligent man.  Perhaps you could think of a few reasons this might be the case.

Ugh, because designing a floating potato chip over a bowl of dip is more expensive than a cube?

"Contextually the cube symbolises earth whilst the circle (represented by the stadium) represents heaven. Hence symbolically the water cube references Chinese symbolic architecture."  from Wiki.

What does the floating potato chip have to do with British culture as I see the theme repeated in the Velodrome?

[Mark Pearce]

John, have you compared labour costs and raw material costs in the UK and the Peoples' Republic?

[John Kavanaugh]

John, have you compared labour costs and raw material costs in the UK and the Peoples' Republic?

Structural architecture in China is not built with slave labor.  These ain't the Pyramids.

[Mark Pearce]

John, have you compared labour costs and raw material costs in the UK and the Peoples' Republic?

Structural architecture in China is not built with slave labor.  These ain't the Pyramids.

I'll take it that's a no, then, shall I?

[John Kavanaugh]

John, have you compared labour costs and raw material costs in the UK and the Peoples' Republic?

Structural architecture in China is not built with slave labor.  These ain't the Pyramids.

I'll take it that's a no, then, shall I?

Yes, please do.  Please include the cost of the management teams also.  I am a union contractor who pays prevailing wage on every project and find it funny how it costs no more to hire me to build a road than someone who pays minimum wage.  God, I do hope that you don't believe that the London Aquatic Center costs more because the money went to the working people of London.

[John Kavanaugh]

What surprised me most about the London Aquatic Center was that it was replacing the beautiful in name Crystal Palace National Sports Centre.  Wow, is that an ugly duck.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crystal_Palace_National_Sports_Centre

Could someone, anyone please post a pic of a decent building built in the UK in the last 50 years.

[Ben Stephens]

Just to clarify a few points as I am more with whats going on in the architecture world:

The London Olympic Games is all about the Olympians and Spectators not Architecture and breeding white elephants or selling a country. I agree that some of the architecture may not be stunning but they are functional in the needs of accomodating a huge sporting festival that only lasts 3 weeks! Legacy is a very important feature.

If anyone of you drove or been past Olympic Park seven years ago it was one of the worst places in London - it was a contaminated field with heaps and Pylons all over the place! Now they have cleared it all up and created a fantastic new park for the people of the East End of London and it will spark a new urban regeneration which is vital for this part of London.

We Brits did the same with the Festival of Britain and the Millenium Dome in 2000. We have avoided the white elephants and resused the land or facilites for other uses. The O2 arena in the Dome is the biggest grossing indoor arena in the world!  

Tony - Zelda Hadid??? - its ZAHA Hadid (not the Prisoner of Zelda!) - probably the most famous female architect in the whole world at the moment and a scary looking woman!. The aquatics centre temporary wings were designed by Arup and its value engineered (the reason why it looks cheap and poor) - the original concept by Zaha was awesome this is a scaled down version and Zaha's temporary wings were too expensive so the LOCOG organising committe brought in Arup to work on the wings and one side is bigger than the other. The inside is absolutely fabulous and there is another pool underneath the entrance walkway towards the Olympic Stadium. Wait until 2014/15 the Aquatics Centre wings will be replaced by two sides of curtain walling. The roof is in effect a bridge supported by 2 columns at one side and 1 big one on the other. Original budget was £75m it is more than £250m this is the only Olympic building over budget all the others including the Park came under budget.

Next door the Aquatics Centre is the temporary Water Polo Arena by David Morley Architects. It is a very interesting concept and seats 5,000!

The Olympic Stadium is by Populous (formerly HOK Sport (HOK took over Lobb Sports Architecture who designed Stadium Australia)) headed by Rod Sheard an expert in Sports Architecture. The huge cost of the stadium £475 compared with Beijing's just under £300 is due to many factors - London is the most expensive place in the world to build per square metre (even more than Dubai), the enabling works was expensive on the stadium island to clear the contaminated materials and reshape it into a bowl and transport the remains into the mounds in Olympic Park which is 500 acres!!

The stadium has a capacity of 80,000 with 25,000 permanent seats and 55,000 temporary seats which will be dismantled and erected up again elsewhere. It is now viewed to have a reduced capacity of 60,000 after the games to host a sporting team and the World Athletics Championships in 2017 - the winner of the bid to take over the Stadium will be announced after the Olympics. Its our way of avoiding building a permanent stadium which will end up as a white elephant. The roof and wrap is designed to 'maximise' the athletes performances. Having seen the pictures it looks so intimate and we Brits love stadiums where we are close to the action and has atmosphere which was lacking at Beijing.

I quite like the crown look of the stadium but I prefer the leaf like elegant roof in the original bid and can see that would double the cost! It is more important to put the functional aspects first than the aesthetics. Beijing Bird Nest is now a white elephant and is struggling to make anything financially.

The temporary basketball arena 12,000 is like a Vienetta Ice Cream designed by Wilkinson Eye who also designed the recently built Emirates Cable Car across the River Thames. It is constructed by Barr and will be dismantled and may be re used in Glasgow for the 2014 Commonwealth Games. The area will be new housing development beside the village after the Games as part of the Legacy Plan.

Most of the venues are temporary and in other parts of London. The most impressive for me is how did they build a 15,000 seater open roofed stadium in Horse Guards Parade for the Beach Volleyball - Prince Charles will have a great view of it!! It was built in 3 weeks - the organisers had to plan to build it after the Trooping of the Colour!    

The total cost of hosting a Olympics in Beijing was £30bn!! London was £9.3bn and under budget! (the initial budget was not worked out properly + I blame politicans for opening their mouth too early) Everything is so cheap in China and its expensive in Great Britain! ie. materials, labour, tax etc.

Cheers
Ben

Isnt the Olympics supposed to be like a Carnival or Temporary Fair!

[Ben Stephens]

The ‘Sculpture’ is an all galaxy abomination and hopefully its destruction can one day be witnessed from space.

The Orbit sculpture is visualised by Anish Kapoor and made feasible by Cecil Balmond who is an incredible structural engineer! I like it as it is different its like Marmite you either love it or hate it!

[Ben Stephens]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Aquatics_Centre

Temporary or not, I've never seen a stadium where you can't see the fans on the other side.

Old Trafford on the North Stand upper tier you cant see the people in the South Stand!!

[Ben Stephens]

What surprised me most about the London Aquatic Center was that it was replacing the beautiful in name Crystal Palace National Sports Centre.  Wow, is that an ugly duck.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crystal_Palace_National_Sports_Centre

Could someone, anyone please post a pic of a decent building built in the UK in the last 50 years.

The UK has more decent buildings than you can think of! The quality of the build is better than buildings I have seen in the US.

The National Theatre is a fantastic piece of concrete architecture built in the 70's

We have the Gherkin the Cigar shaped tower

The Shard recently opened it looks amazing!

The Millenium Bridge

Tate Modern

The new cathedral like underground stations of the Jubilee line

Canary Wharf

The Dome is a great piece of technical and high tech architecture

Sports wise - Mound Stand and Grandstand at Lord Cricket Ground. The new stand at the Oval Cricket Ground

Emirates and Wembley Stadiums

I could go on and on ...........

Mr Pringles dome aka the Velodrome is a thing of beauty!

[Sean_A]

What surprised me most about the London Aquatic Center was that it was replacing the beautiful in name Crystal Palace National Sports Centre.  Wow, is that an ugly duck.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crystal_Palace_National_Sports_Centre

Could someone, anyone please post a pic of a decent building built in the UK in the last 50 years.

It is difficult to assess architecture without experiencing it in the context of why it was designed.  That said, I like

The Gherkin
O2
Canary Wharf DLR Station
The new stands at Ascot

Ciao

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