Poa v Bent

[Ed Brzezowski]

Our course is currently having a struggle with the different growing rates of the grass in this ungodly heat in the midatlantic.

Anyone else's home course having the same struggle??  Really difficult to keep putts online.

I am hoping we are not the only course with this issue. Leading to discussions of ripping out all the greens and going bent all the way. Of course with the necessary assessments.  Tough times for greens keepers .

[JR Potts]

It has been a terrible 3 years for greenskeepers.  I think the short answer is that any course in the Midwest and East with different types of grasses is likely seeing the effects of the high heat.  Luckily, and I'm knocking on wood, the rains have been limited....allowing the supers to control water intake.

If big rains start and this heat stays, it's going to get ugly.

[Dan Herrmann]

Shows the importance of the "nuts & bolts" of springtime maintenance.   Sure you can't control everything, but well-performed aeration, soil amendments, and topdressing can really help.

[Mark Johnson]

to add to JR's points, the dewpoints in the midwest have been unreal as well. 

Last year there was a 3 week period with the dewpoints over 75 and it just destroyed tons of courses including hazeltine.

Just saw the forecast over the next week and it looks to be very humid as well.   When there is that much water in the air, I am not sure what anyone could do

[Sean Remington (SBR)]

Ed  -  It's difficult to know the details of you situation but speaking from first hand experience I can offer the following.  Having a mix of grasses on greens is very tough to deal with.  Your Super could be in limbo trying to do the best with what he has and he can not bake the same cake every day with different ingredients.  Just not possible.  When I say he is in limbo it's possible he may not have a clear plan of full backing of his key bosses (Green Comm. / BOD).  Your Club needs to decide if you are to have Poa greens or Bent greens on modified push-up construciton or Bent greens on new construction.  Once this is determined your Super will be on a much clearer path and can set his course.  Chances are your not going to rebuild right away so making the decision on what you have in front of you is the reality and it's a great conversation to have.  

[Ed Brzezowski]

Thanks Sean, our guy is great and has been trying to drive home your point of mixed grasses. The problem  is the members ,big surprise eh?

Everyone wants everything to be perfect and I can see their desire for good playing conditions. However no one can ignore this crappy weather.

Ed

[Jeff Goldman]

My recollection is that Chicago wasn't too bad last year. We had rain early, and then one really hot week (coincidentally when we held the US Girls' Jr.) but other than that it was ok. The year before was difficult, and this year......it rained pretty good last night so we'll see. 

[JR Potts]

Jeff:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/07/29/more-chicago-storms-julys_n_913049.html

http://climateillinois.wordpress.com/2011/07/25/heavy-rain-in-chicago-on-july-23/


Last july/ early August in Chicago was horrible.  

[Jon Wiggett]

Your Club needs to decide if you are to have Poa greens or Bent greens on modified push-up construciton or Bent greens on new construction.   

An interesting quote. I was just wondering how many 25 year old new construction greens that are still poa free?

Jon

[Adrian_Stiff]

Jon - I would say not many and not higher than zero in the UK. I suppose it could be done in Southern climates.

[Jon Wiggett]

I know in arid climates you can keep poa free greens but would like see if there are any examples in wetter climates. I agree here in the UK poa will always creep in though I do not see poa as a big problem though I know others do.

Jon

[Ian Larson]

Your Club needs to decide if you are to have Poa greens or Bent greens on modified push-up construciton or Bent greens on new construction.   

An interesting quote. I was just wondering how many 25 year old new construction greens that are still poa free?

Jon

Bent Creek Country Club in Lititz, Pennsylvania. Hot, muggy, rainy central Pennsylvania.

[Bradley Anderson]

Jon,

I have 17 year old USGA greens and they are generally free of Poa. Except for three greens which are have shade on them. If you want to keep Poa off new greens you definitely don't want shade on them.

In full sun there is no issue with Poa.

[Jon Wiggett]

Bradley, Ian,

from previous threads I think we are more or less on the same wave length. It is air movement, shade and critically in my opinion general dryness in the upper soil profile that decide the vigor of poa (asside from the direct greenkeeping management)

Jon

[Mark Johnson]

We had 73 degree dewpoints at 7am this morning...   no carts on fairways until the 4th at the earliest...

hopefully this heat/humidity wave is much gentler than last years.

[Ian Larson]

If you're struggling with the different growing rates of the two grasses that tells me that your super is not keeping the greens under growth regulation enough. We also have bent poa and could go either way with which one we choose to manage. But we keep them under consistent growth regulation with Primo which keeps them equal. Any vertical shoot growth this time of year is a waste of energy in the plant. It needs to be redirected to the stolons and roots while under summer stress.

[Pat Burke]

Any super who has a reasonably busy course in solid condition for multiple
years in the mid Atlantic states gets a high five.  It is a brutal place to provide
consistent playing conditions.

[archie_struthers]

 

Kudos to all supers keeping turf good in the Mid-Atlantic ......poa encroaches bent , management possible......keep it dry and aerated ...use growth regulators ...and pray !

[Carl Nichols]

Any super who has a reasonably busy course in solid condition for multiple
years in the mid Atlantic states gets a high five.  It is a brutal place to provide
consistent playing conditions.

That's when you have power.  My club has been without power since Friday evening, as a result of which the automatic irrigation system apparently isn't working, requiring hand-watering everywhere.  I assume that in this heat (and without much rain) that makes for a lot of stress on the grass. 

[Sean Remington (SBR)]

  Power loss for any length of time could be a near death sentence for most courses in this heat.  Having electric to run the pump system is the most critical.  Without you are left with no water or minimal.  Carl your course may have a water supply with a base line pressure that allows hand watering only.  Some may not have this.  At Chevy Chase when we rebuilt the course in 97 with new irrigation we switched from a total city water supply that was then pumped for irrigation to a holding pond supplied system.  We did retain the option to use the city supply when needed in two ways. 1. to supply water to the new pond during droughts 2. to pipe into the new system for use to hand water if needed. City presure is way less than ideal and makes for very slow going but if that's all you got it will help.  Most courses would also try to get a large generator to power the pumps, if they can get one.

[SL_Solow]

In the Chicago area some of the fellows have run into some trouble with growth regulators.  we had a very warm March so some started treatments earlier than usual.  A cold April and a less than ideal early May was followed by June heat.  More than a few courses are having problems.

After our experience 2 summers ago, we decided to gas and regrass our 90 year old greens and plant A1-A4.  Grow in was great and we have a strong stand which is doing well in the heat, especially when one considers that the greens are brand new.  Our poa roots were very shallow; the bents are considerably longer and thus much more heat resistant.

[Carl Nichols]

  Power loss for any length of time could be a near death sentence for most courses in this heat.  Having electric to run the pump system is the most critical.  Without you are left with no water or minimal.  Carl your course may have a water supply with a base line pressure that allows hand watering only.  Some may not have this.  At Chevy Chase when we rebuilt the course in 97 with new irrigation we switched from a total city water supply that was then pumped for irrigation to a holding pond supplied system.  We did retain the option to use the city supply when needed in two ways. 1. to supply water to the new pond during droughts 2. to pipe into the new system for use to hand water if needed. City presure is way less than ideal and makes for very slow going but if that's all you got it will help.  Most courses would also try to get a large generator to power the pumps, if they can get one.

Sean:
I'm at Bethesda CC, and don't know what our precise situation is . . . only that I'm getting emails from the manager and pro detailing the various problems they're having.