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Mark Saltzman

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Pictorial: Longaberger Golf Club (Arthur Hills)
« on: June 28, 2012, 10:01:18 PM »
Entrance





Clubhouse -- understated from the front, anything but from the rear





Cool Basket Office Building



Unless otherwise noted, pictures and yardages from 6,500 yard blue tees (71.3/132)

Hole 1: Par 4, 377 Yards -- Lots of debate about this hole.  Line of charm takes the golfer near the bunkers on the right, but it's 240 yards over the first bunker, uphill, from the 6,500 yard set = not many people are playing over the bunkers.  Tree is a debatable feature, and Hills probably would have been better off leaving it out (some restraint is in order) but it's not reachable for many and it really isn't in play.  The first starts with a very good green, with interesting shape, a highlight of the course.








Hole 2: Par 4, 435 Yards -- The first in a collection of very good long/difficult par-4s at Longaberger.  Downhill the whole way, the bunker on the left protects the short line into the green.  Fairway contouring short of the green allows the ball to be run/kicked onto the green.









Hole 3: Par 4, 353 Yards -- well used varying teeing angles here.  Carrying the bunker on the left leaves both a shorter approach and a preferred (less blind) angle into the green.







Hole 4: Par 5, 530 Yards -- Lots of debate about this hole as well.  I seem to think it works better than most.  An extremely downhill tee shot (100+ feet) with a bunker guarding the ideal line.  Longer hitters will be left with well under 250 yards into a very well-protected green.  Though the approach is very difficult, it is difficult to lay-up with iron in hand (in my opinion).  If laying up the golfer must challenge the water to leave a flat lie on the approach.  My big criticism is the flowus interruptus in the routing.  With 500+ acres surely Hills could have done better.









Hole 5: Par 3, 188 Yards -- some seem to like this hole more than I.  I see it as an all-or-nothing long-iron par-3 that I've seen many times before.






Hole 6: Par 4, 287 Yards -- At 240 to the front-edge the golfer is tempted to go for this green.  There is more room to miss right than appears, though that does leave the most difficult recovery.





Hole 7: Par 5, 505 Yards -- Kind of a ho-hum hole, though a large grass bunker off the tee and cleverly placed bunkers in the lay-up zone do add to the interest. 








Hole 8: Par 4, 420 Yards -- The most controversial hole on the course.  Play left of the trees to the flat fairway and leave an approach over the water, or play to the right of the trees to the severely tilted fairway and leave a clear line but a very uneven lie.  The approach is played very downhill to a peninsula green -- lots of room to bailout right or long, though.













Hole 9: Par 3, 150 Yards -- Simple par-3 over water.  It was suggested that this hole is an Augusta's 12th replica.  I guess I could see that.








Hole 10: Par 5, 474 Yards -- another ho-hum par-5 with a good green.






Hole 11: Par 4, 335 Yards -- Cut off as much as you dare; the green is a long way to the right.  Very nice green site tucked in an amphitheatre over a stream.




Hole 12: Par 3, 158 Yards -- Out of the trees and onto a very boring golf hole.  The par-3s really are a weak spot at Longaberger.





Hole 13: Par 4, 464 Yards -- A big-boy par-4 and really a good hole.  The carry bunker on the right should not be in play and well-struck tee balls should roll a long way on this downhill fairway.  Large depression short-right of the green is a good, intimidating feature.







Hole 14: Par 3, 162 Yards -- Yawn.




Hole 15: Par 4, 404 Yards -- Strong hole with staggered bunkering on the tee shot.  Fairway contouring hides the gully short of the green, but it is one bad spot to be.






Hole 16: Par 5, 476 Yards -- This hole is easily reachable in two with a bold tee shot.  Fairway contouring (towards the water) makes the lay-up a difficult endeavour.  Green has a huge, HUGE ridge -- very interesting!








Hole 17: Par 4, 390 Yards -- An OK hole in my mind, but everyone else seems to think it's a very strong hole.  What's I miss?






Hole 18: Par 4, 434 Yards -- The finishing hole at Longaberger is a good one.  The strategy is sound, though I think each set of tees should be moved up a box (it's 240 yards over the left bunker from the 6,500 yard set) as most golfers have little chance of carrying the bunkers -- turns an interesting hole into a bit of a slog.  Extremely difficult green with the only(?) false-front on the golf course.  Make 4 here to win a tourney and you've earned my respect.







BHoover

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Re: Pictorial: Longaberger Golf Club (Arthur Hills)
« Reply #1 on: June 28, 2012, 10:20:24 PM »
Thanks for the photo tour, Mark. I've been to Longaberger a few times. Although there are criticisms (such as not being walkable and somewhat forgettable par 3s), I've always enjoyed playing there. I think the greens are pretty interesting, and the terrain is great, especially for central Ohio.

Did you have a chance to play anywhere else here in Ohio?

Frank M

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Re: Pictorial: Longaberger Golf Club (Arthur Hills) New
« Reply #2 on: June 28, 2012, 10:20:44 PM »
Mark: I've been wanting to get out to Longarberger. I don't know why it was just always a course I wanted to play.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2024, 09:16:12 PM by Frank M »

Mark Saltzman

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Re: Pictorial: Longaberger Golf Club (Arthur Hills)
« Reply #3 on: June 28, 2012, 10:26:03 PM »
Thanks for the tour and I'm loving the new all in one post format  ;)

 :)

A little from column "a" a little from column "b"

Matthew Sander

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Re: Pictorial: Longaberger Golf Club (Arthur Hills)
« Reply #4 on: June 28, 2012, 10:40:41 PM »
Mark,

Thanks for the tour. I know that there are some relatively strong feelings on Longaberger in both directions. I have a couple first impressions from your photos and descriptions.

On the positive side, there looks to be tremendous playable width. The fairways don't look abnormally wide, but the playing corridors between the trees seem to be vast. I'm curious if that was the nature of the site or if they cleared those open spaces. So many courses in the midwest forested areas are fairway, narrow strip of rough, and then jungle.

The par threes do look a bit, blah. For example, the bunker placement on 14 looks like an after thought. Why even bother?

Ronald Montesano

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Re: Pictorial: Longaberger Golf Club (Arthur Hills)
« Reply #5 on: June 28, 2012, 11:00:59 PM »
Matthew S., mid-Ohio is not midwest forest...it is about as farmland as you get. Wide-open is the name of the game there.

I played Longaberger once. Warning: when you get off the highway, turn the correct way! The entrance is 1/4 mile from the highway. If you go the wrong way, you'll drive for 2 hours and get bad directions from people who may or may not hate the company.

Regarding the golf course, it is very extreme in many ways. Fazio probably was under orders to give the Moses-ship people a bitch of a course. It has served as site for the PGA Club Pro championship, but i think they ate it up. Touring pros would kill it, as they would cut the corners that Fazio thought would protect the course. Between Longaberger and Atunyote (Turning Stone-central New York) I prefer the less angular Atunyote. The par threes are better there, as well.

I would have to think long and hard about what A) differentiates Longy from 20 other courses I've played and B) why I would want/need to return.

THANKS TO MATTHEW SANDER FOR POINTING OUT THAT THIS ENTIRE ENTRY IS INVALID, SINCE I CAN'T TELL THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A HILLS AND A FAZIO. SOME OF US ARE SLOWER THAN OTHERS.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2012, 05:49:43 PM by Ronald Montesano »
Coming in 2024
~Elmira Country Club
~Soaring Eagles
~Bonavista
~Indian Hills
~Maybe some more!!

Matthew Sander

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Pictorial: Longaberger Golf Club (Arthur Hills)
« Reply #6 on: June 28, 2012, 11:09:16 PM »
Ronald,

Trying to do this without coming across as a smart-a#@, but you may want to check the thread title.  ;D

Ronald Montesano

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Re: Pictorial: Longaberger Golf Club (Arthur Hills)
« Reply #7 on: June 28, 2012, 11:25:07 PM »
Don't follow...perhaps I'm not ass-smart like some others. I will be overjoyed to know what I'm missing.
Coming in 2024
~Elmira Country Club
~Soaring Eagles
~Bonavista
~Indian Hills
~Maybe some more!!

Matthew Sander

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Pictorial: Longaberger Golf Club (Arthur Hills)
« Reply #8 on: June 28, 2012, 11:25:59 PM »
Hills, not Fazio...

Andy Troeger

Re: Pictorial: Longaberger Golf Club (Arthur Hills)
« Reply #9 on: June 29, 2012, 01:30:21 PM »
Don't like #4 any more from these photos than from my memory. Drive the ball down the hill and then either hit a boring layup or try to hit a long shot off a downhill lie to a green surrounded by junk except that little run-up area on the front-right. Pretty sure long is dead too, unless the five yards of rough stops the ball.

I actually like #8 quite a bit. And #9 is the one par three that I think is fairly thoughtful. The vista on #14 is kind of wasted on a pretty dull hole.

In looking through the photos I'm reminded that I enjoyed the round, but that its not a masterpiece either. I'd certainly go back though.

Greg Tallman

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Re: Pictorial: Longaberger Golf Club (Arthur Hills)
« Reply #10 on: June 29, 2012, 01:46:45 PM »
Hole 5 looks like it could be a fun hole if 2 of the 3 bunkers (middle & left) were filled with the fairway cut extending all the way out and over the knob into the swale left. At least that is a first impression... from a photo.

Matthew Rose

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Re: Pictorial: Longaberger Golf Club (Arthur Hills)
« Reply #11 on: June 29, 2012, 05:39:06 PM »
Looks a little more forgiving and playable than most Art Hills courses that I'm familiar with.
American-Australian. Trackman Course Guy. Fatalistic sports fan. Drummer. Bass player. Father. Cat lover.

Jason Thurman

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: Pictorial: Longaberger Golf Club (Arthur Hills)
« Reply #12 on: June 29, 2012, 06:18:33 PM »
Mark, thanks for the tour. As someone who recently moved to Cincinnati, Longaberger is a course I've considered playing when work takes me a bit north. I've heard mixed reviews, but it looks like a decent course overall.

Those who have spent time in Ohio (Hills country), where does Longaberger rank among the state's best publics? How about among Hills' designs?

For a course so highly regarded, it appears to have some really questionable holes that leave a blemish on some really good ones. 8 looks interesting to me though. Seems like there's plenty of room to bail out short and right and have a straightforward pitch. If 11 at Augusta is a solid hole, what's wrong with 8 at Longaberger?

Also, what makes it unwalkable? Are the transitions that bad? The terrain looks very manageable.
"There will always be haters. That’s just the way it is. Hating dudes marry hating women and have hating ass kids." - Evan Turner

Some of y'all have never been called out in bold green font and it really shows.

noonan

Re: Pictorial: Longaberger Golf Club (Arthur Hills)
« Reply #13 on: June 29, 2012, 10:16:00 PM »
Great pictures - it is a fun course

The one thing the picture of 18 does not capture is the enormity of the view from the tee box.......it makes the fairway and hole seem very small with the vista from the tee box

Growing up in Ohio I find park land golf beautiful...yes there are better courses ....but this is a course you should play

Mark Saltzman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Pictorial: Longaberger Golf Club (Arthur Hills)
« Reply #14 on: June 29, 2012, 10:40:45 PM »

Also, what makes it unwalkable? Are the transitions that bad? The terrain looks very manageable.

Jason, it's not unwalkable.  The course hosted the club professionals championship a few years back and I presume everyone walked.  The only really offensive transitions are from 9-10 and 18-clubhouse, which is up one massive hill.

Overall, though, it is a very hilly and very big (500 acres) property.  I prefer to walk, but unlike some here, do not hate taking a cart.  I believe that at some point the walk becomes difficult enough that it detracts from the enjoyment of the round.  Longaberger would be past that point.

Matthew Sander

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Re: Pictorial: Longaberger Golf Club (Arthur Hills)
« Reply #15 on: June 29, 2012, 10:43:26 PM »

THANKS TO MATTHEW SANDER FOR POINTING OUT THAT THIS ENTIRE ENTRY IS INVALID, SINCE I CAN'T TELL THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A HILLS AND A FAZIO. SOME OF US ARE SLOWER THAN OTHERS.

Ronald,

Fear not, for I am King of the Slow. And quite frankly, aren't all of our posts invalid?

Tiger_Bernhardt

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Re: Pictorial: Longaberger Golf Club (Arthur Hills)
« Reply #16 on: June 29, 2012, 10:45:12 PM »
A good Art Hills course.

Matthew Sander

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Re: Pictorial: Longaberger Golf Club (Arthur Hills)
« Reply #17 on: June 29, 2012, 10:51:52 PM »
A question for Mark and anyone else with experience at Longaberger: Regardless of your overall opinion of the course, do you feel that Arthur Hills maximized the potential of the site? It seems that a majority of the criticisms aimed his way have to do with coming up short on better than average sites.


Andy Troeger

Re: Pictorial: Longaberger Golf Club (Arthur Hills)
« Reply #18 on: June 29, 2012, 11:47:58 PM »
Mark,
That's well stated regarding walking Longaberger. Could be done, but it would detract from the round to do it.

Matthew,
No, its not maximized. Look at the photo of that last par three, #14. Its a wonderful spot with a beautiful vista and a boring hole. The 4th is mediocre at best (and I'm not inclined to get it that much credit). I'm not sure there's any hole out there that's architecturally significant, but quite a few that are certainly enjoyable. Its fun, but not unique. That's not to say he didn't do a reasonable job, but I think its hard to argue its as good as it gets for that kind of site. 

I'm not sure its as great a site as others have indicated over the years. Building a walkable course on that property would have required some effort and creativity.

Pete Balzer

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Re: Pictorial: Longaberger Golf Club (Arthur Hills)
« Reply #19 on: June 30, 2012, 12:01:47 AM »
I enjoyed the course and will play again when in the area, but I HATED the range

Ronald Montesano

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Re: Pictorial: Longaberger Golf Club (Arthur Hills)
« Reply #20 on: June 30, 2012, 09:08:25 PM »
I loved the range.

I'm trying to recall if they have drainage issues here. One of my problems was the absolute saturation of the course, despite not having been rained upon for a week or two.

Coming in 2024
~Elmira Country Club
~Soaring Eagles
~Bonavista
~Indian Hills
~Maybe some more!!

Greg Chambers

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Re: Pictorial: Longaberger Golf Club (Arthur Hills)
« Reply #21 on: June 30, 2012, 09:19:42 PM »
Mark, as usual, great photo tour.  For you or those who have played it, are the bunkers as awful in person as they are in the photographs?  And is it me, or are there just too many bunkers?  I'm not sure I've ever been less inspired by bunkering than I am of Art Hills courses (and I've played a few).
"It's good sportsmanship to not pick up lost golf balls while they are still rolling.”

Mark Saltzman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Pictorial: Longaberger Golf Club (Arthur Hills)
« Reply #22 on: June 30, 2012, 09:29:47 PM »
I loved the range.

I'm trying to recall if they have drainage issues here. One of my problems was the absolute saturation of the course, despite not having been rained upon for a week or two.



Ron,

the range is a PITA to get to/from, not that matters much because we're all in carts anyways.  It is very downhill to the targets, which some may hate as it makes it much harder to properly calibrate distance.   

I don't know if they have drainage issues or what, but I teed-off at 9:30 and the course was soaked until near the end of the round.  Nearly every other course I played on the trip was firm and dry.

Mark Saltzman

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Re: Pictorial: Longaberger Golf Club (Arthur Hills)
« Reply #23 on: June 30, 2012, 09:31:01 PM »
Mark, as usual, great photo tour.  For you or those who have played it, are the bunkers as awful in person as they are in the photographs?  And is it me, or are there just too many bunkers?  I'm not sure I've ever been less inspired by bunkering than I am of Art Hills courses (and I've played a few).

Greg, thank you!

I didn't hate the bunkers.  What makes them look so bad in your eyes?

Greg Chambers

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Re: Pictorial: Longaberger Golf Club (Arthur Hills)
« Reply #24 on: June 30, 2012, 09:48:05 PM »
They all look the same.  Uninspired shapes, same grass face going down to a flat sand bottom.  A lot of them seem like they're forced into the landscape--the two front left of 5 green are a perfect example.  And it seems like more than a few of them were just added willey-nilley.  Nothing bothers me more than unnecessary, poorly placed bunkers.
"It's good sportsmanship to not pick up lost golf balls while they are still rolling.”

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