[TEPaul]

Anthony:

You know what they say about those tour pros------eg "Those Guys are Good."

As for running a ball up onto the green on #3 that would be a neat trick given that steep upslope in front of the green surface and the fact it is in light rough.

I would expect an imaginative shot-maker like Bubba Watson could do it though. Look for him to hit a screaming slighly hooked (he's a lefty) 6-iron that stays about ten feet off the ground for the first 250 yards, hits that rough upslope and with a bit of overspin hops up onto the green and rolls to within a few feet of the back pin.

That sounds like the percentage play, don't you think?

I just hope no spectators get in the way or the chances are pretty good they would be cut in half.

[Bill Brightly]

74 from the back tees is incredibly impressive. How many drivers did you hit? And if you played it again, would that number change?

[TEPaul]

"Gotta love modern advances in equipment- a 5'7" runt like me can hit the ball further than anyone could about 20 years ago."


Brian Colbert:

You are the guy who won the Philadelphia Amateur and just shot a 74 from the new tips at Merion, right?

And you say you're a 5'7" runt who hits the ball farther than anyone did 20 years ago?

If that's all true I would like to ask you over to Gulph Mills Golf Club to play. If you hit the ball that far over there and shoot let us say a 66 or something I will watch it all with awe and wonderment and then somewhere within the approximately 100 yards between the 18th green and the lockerroom to which one must walk across a beautiful lawn right behind the patio on which many members sit and look out on the golf course, since I am 6'0," somewhere within that 100 yards of lawn I will sneak up behind you, jump on you with something like my old 1-iron and I will proceed to beat the ever-living red-blooded American bodily fluids out of you right there on the lawn in front of the collected membership sitting there sipping one thing or another.

Contact me anytime.

[Mark McKeever]

I will attest to how far Brian can hit the ball.  My back was in bad shape after playing WM and "trying" to keep up with him.

Mark

[Anthony Butler]

Anthony:

You know what they say about those tour pros------eg "Those Guys are Good."

As for running a ball up onto the green on #3 that would be a neat trick given that steep upslope in front of the green surface and the fact it is in light rough.

I would expect an imaginative shot-maker like Bubba Watson could do it though. Look for him to hit a screaming slighly hooked (he's a lefty) 6-iron that stays about ten feet off the ground for the first 250 yards, hits that rough upslope and with a bit of overspin hops up onto the green and rolls to within a few feet of the back pin.

That sounds like the percentage play, don't you think?

I just hope no spectators get in the way or the chances are pretty good they would be cut in half.

Sorry Tom,

I guess I should have said replaced my English-style understatement with "since there's no f*&%ing way you'll reach #3 unless you fly it on"...

Of course, we would then be discounting the fact that Mike Davis might shave that fronting bank closer than porn star pussy...

There... so much better!

[JMEvensky]

Of course, we would then be discounting the fact that Mike Davis might shave that fronting bank closer than porn star pussy...

Nominated for metaphor of the year--golf course set up division.

[Doug Braunsdorf]

Question regarding elasticity and the par three holes here-
Regarding the par three holes here (3,9,13,17); I am of the understanding that 3 and 17 can be made to play very long (e.g. max 275 yds on 3 and 230-240(?) on 17.  My understanding is 9 plays about 180-190 for normal member play?  Will it play about this length for the tournament; is there much room to go forward or back on this hole?
13, I believe is normally about 130-135, correct?  How far back can this hole be played without having to tee off on or over Ardmore Avenue? 

[TEPaul]

"I guess I should have said replaced my English-style understatement with "since there's no f*&%ing way you'll reach #3 unless you fly it on"...

Of course, we would then be discounting the fact that Mike Davis might shave that fronting bank closer than porn star pussy...

There... so much better!"


Anthony:

Yes, that is what you SHOULD HAVE said. You're talking about an American golf course here, and also about America and Americans and we are the kings of the world in trash talking. I'm told by many of my foreign friends from around the world that no language in history is as rich and dynamic for various expressions of insulting and profanity, sexual and otherwise, as our American English-----so yes your amended statement above is what you SHOULD HAVE said about the 3rd hole at Merion.

Shaved closer than a porn star's pussy-----yes, indeed, that catches the exact essence of possibilities on the approach to the 3rd green to a veritable tee! Or is it T or even tea in the UK?

[Tim Martin]

Will 3 green be accepting of a three wood play that flies all the way in when set up at 275 yds? Additionally is that the longest 3 par in major tournament history or a regular tour event for that matter? Maybe Tom Paul can opine about this as it seems to fly in the face of the design intent regardless of how far these guys can hit it.

[Joe Bausch]

"Gotta love modern advances in equipment- a 5'7" runt like me can hit the ball further than anyone could about 20 years ago."


Brian Colbert:

You are the guy who won the Philadelphia Amateur and just shot a 74 from the new tips at Merion, right?

And you say you're a 5'7" runt who hits the ball farther than anyone did 20 years ago?

If that's all true I would like to ask you over to Gulph Mills Golf Club to play. If you hit the ball that far over there and shoot let us say a 66 or something I will watch it all with awe and wonderment and then somewhere within the approximately 100 yards between the 18th green and the lockerroom to which one must walk across a beautiful lawn right behind the patio on which many members sit and look out on the golf course, since I am 6'0," somewhere within that 100 yards of lawn I will sneak up behind you, jump on you with something like my old 1-iron and I will proceed to beat the ever-living red-blooded American bodily fluids out of you right there on the lawn in front of the collected membership sitting there sipping one thing or another.

Contact me anytime.

If there is room in that group, I would love to see Brian and Gulph Mills and the excellent game of TPaul. 

[Dan Herrmann]

Whadda you say we meet up at King of Prussia and make a parade down North Gulph road to witness the encounter? 

[Anthony Butler]

Will 3 green be accepting of a three wood play that flies all the way in when set up at 275 yds? Additionally is that the longest 3 par in major tournament history or a regular tour event for that matter? Maybe Tom Paul can opine about this as it seems to fly in the face of the design intent regardless of how far these guys can hit it.

I seem to recall that one of the par 3s at Oakmont in 2007 could be stretched to 300yds... uphill no less!

[DMoriarty]

Will 3 green be accepting of a three wood play that flies all the way in when set up at 275 yds? Additionally is that the longest 3 par in major tournament history or a regular tour event for that matter? Maybe Tom Paul can opine about this as it seems to fly in the face of the design intent regardless of how far these guys can hit it.

I wonder the same thing.  Judging from the old aerials the actual distance from the middle of the original tee was in the neighborhood of 170-175 yards, and the hole could possibly have been stretched to 185 or 190 yards.  For part of this US Open open it sounds like this par 3 will play up to 90 yards longer than it did when Bobby Jones won his Grand Slam in 1930.   According to a golf Illustrated report that year, Jones hit a two iron on the hole in 1930.

[Tim Martin]

Will 3 green be accepting of a three wood play that flies all the way in when set up at 275 yds? Additionally is that the longest 3 par in major tournament history or a regular tour event for that matter? Maybe Tom Paul can opine about this as it seems to fly in the face of the design intent regardless of how far these guys can hit it.

I seem to recall that one of the par 3s at Oakmont in 2007 could be stretched to 300yds... uphill no less!

Anthony-You are right in that the tournament yardage was listed at 288. WOW! That is number 8.

[David_Elvins]

I seem to recall that one of the par 3s at Oakmont in 2007 could be stretched to 300yds... uphill no less!

The 8th at Oakmont played downhill and was designed for a running approach shot.

No such luxury on either of the front nine par 3s at Merion.

The new tee on the 9th at Merion is the most disappointing, IMO.  It is 250 to the middle from the back of the new tee box and 230ish to the middle from the front of the new tee box.  It is then 35 yards to the next tee box meaning the hole cannot be played at any distance between 190ish and 230ish,  Given the yardages of the other par 3s and the type of green at the 9th, the ideal length of the 9th is probably 200-210.  Which is the tee they got rid of to build the new back tee.  Not to mention that the new back tee is over the back of the hill and they had to cut a groove out of the hill so the green can be seen from there.  Horrible. 

[Dan Herrmann]

David - #9 at 250 is crazy, crazy, crazy.

Why doesn't the USGA just build a boring 9000 yard golf course with 25yd wide fairways and flat greens that stimp at 15?  Call it the Lexus/Rolex Championship Course and be done with it.

Mike Davis, you've let us down.

[TEPaul]

"Quote from: Tim Martin on Today at 07:08:08 PM

Will 3 green be accepting of a three wood play that flies all the way in when set up at 275 yds? Additionally is that the longest 3 par in major tournament history or a regular tour event for that matter? Maybe Tom Paul can opine about this as it seems to fly in the face of the design intent regardless of how far these guys can hit it.


I wonder the same thing.  Judging from the old aerials the actual distance from the middle of the original tee was in the neighborhood of 170-175 yards, and the hole could possibly have been stretched to 185 or 190 yards.  For part of this US Open open it sounds like this par 3 will play up to 90 yards longer than it did when Bobby Jones won his Grand Slam in 1930.   According to a golf Illustrated report that year, Jones hit a two iron on the hole in 1930."



For those not aware of it Bob Jones was exceptionally long for even the long set of golfers of his day. The 2 irons or their new counterparts, hybrids, the longer players will be hitting into #3 next year are comparable to the 2 iron hickory club Bob Jones might have hit into #3 in 1930 from up to 90 yards closer than they will be playing from next year for at least one round in the US Open.

[Doug Braunsdorf]

Dan, don't say that yet.  Look, last weekend, I seem to recall television reporting players having 6 iron into #3, which was playing around 240 or so.  I realize 9 at Merion is an aerial shot type par three.  What is the distance from the tee down to the green?  Don't forget, these guys can control a 3 iron or hybrid better than a lot of us can control a 9 iron.  All I am saying is, give it a chance.  Having said that, I personally prefer different looks at par 3 holes in a round.  I have not played East.  For normal play, do 3 and 9 usually play at about the same distance?  3 looks to be all carry and slightly uphill (IIRC), 9 is all carry downhill (right?)    13 is a precision short iron, and 17 allows for a somewhat running shot.  Again, this is only based on pictures and conversations.  I haven't played East, so I may be wrong.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Brian Colbert:

You won the Philly Amateur??!?

I guess I'm not keeping up with things around here.

And you think that I'm out of touch with what's going on in the golf world ? 

[Patrick_Mucci]

I am not trying to be argumentative but how does your friend know where they are going to be setting up tees 11.5 months out? 

I would doubt that the USGA and Mike Davis have even thought too much about that yet. 

They may have mused about perhaps moving tees around but I really doubt they have decided on how many days at what distance.

Wayne,

They're already into the process of locating tees for the 2018 Open at Shinnecock.

The truth of the matter is that 11.5 months would seem to indicate that they're far behind schedule.

Remember, growing seasons in Philadelphia aren't like Florida
[/quote]

[Brian Colbert]

RE #9: The hole is about 250 from the new back tee, but I was able to get there with a 2-iron to the back of the green. That would mean 3-4 iron to the middle. For those guys it will be between 5-6 iron. My caddie said he had carried for a guy on tour whose name escapes me (not a big name) and he hit 6-iron to the front edge. I would consider that to be pretty reasonable.

And Tom, I accept your challenge. What I lack in stature I more than make up for in tenacity.

[TEPaul]

To David Elvins and Anthony Butler:

I happened to walk by #8 at Oakmont in the 2007 US Open when Bubba Watson and his group were playing that hole from close to the tips (about ten steps closer than its max of app. 300). I realize that one does not want to design for the longest of the long but his two fellow competitors hit hybrids at that green and Bubba stepped up there and FLEW a 6 iron to a mid-left pin position to about six feet. Not much expression from him but his fellow competitors did roll their eyes.

I'm Ok with the extension of #17 at Merion to up to 247 for the 2005 US Amateur but I do think #3 and #9 are too long now. I am particularly not a fan of how they dropped the grade where the original left back tees were and swaled the whole area down. Thank God for that glorious little 135 yard 13th.

The Faz is quite imaginative with distance increase. I think he was trying to figure out how to get a tee for #13 across Ardmore Ave before everyone involved apparently nixxed that. And he did suggest trying to put a new back tee on #16 across Golf House Road on the Halls lawn, but everyone really nixxed that. I did run into Bob and Joanie Hall one day at GMGC and I told them about that. Their reaction was to laugh and say; "They should've asked us; we might've considered letting them do it."  

[David_Elvins]

RE #9: The hole is about 250 from the new back tee, but I was able to get there with a 2-iron to the back of the green. That would mean 3-4 iron to the middle. For those guys it will be between 5-6 iron. My caddie said he had carried for a guy on tour whose name escapes me (not a big name) and he hit 6-iron to the front edge. I would consider that to be pretty reasonable.

Brian,

Do you really think that tour players are two clubs longer than you? 

I don't want to suggest that the green is not reachable from the back but how will it play with firm greens?  ie, the back right portion of the green is quite shallow and I cannot imagine anyone holding it from 250.  I think they would struggle to hold it from 175. So if the pin is back there, they will probably play the forward tee, which is, like I said, very forward.   With firm greens those great slopes that feed off the bunkers will also reject balls a lot more, won't they?  I have not seen Merion played in extreme conditions, but I would imagine the target area on that green is actually really quite small.  Too small for 250 yards, IMO, but I could be wrong.   

[David_Elvins]

I am particularly not a fan of how they dropped the grade where the original left back tees were and swaled the whole area down.

I agree, on an old elegant course, it appears to be particularly clumsy and unsubtle.  A cost of several hundred thousand dollars to add 40 yards to a hole that may not need it is also not a great feature, IMO. 

[Doug Braunsdorf]

Has the infrastructure map been released yet?  I would be curious to see entry and exit points, traffic flow, etc.

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