[PCCraig]

Pics

#3 at Pine Meadow

The photo doesnt really do it justice.   very demanding tee shot where do cut off as much lake as you can and still have to land in a narrow fairway.   Approach to a narrow green with a drop off in back.   A miss in either bunker is a sure bogey.

I've played PM a fair amount and #3 was always my least favorite hole. Just an awkward tee shot for me.

I think my favorite hole(s) at PM would be #15 and #16. #15 is a really cool par 4.5 with a fun tee shot and neat green site. #16 just has a fun classic vibe and I always really liked the second shot.

[JR Potts]

Shoreacres - #11, 12.  I think #13 is the worst hole on the course (Sorry Pat)
Medinah #1 - 9th Hole (Long, fair par 5 that personifies Medinah.  Will be the best par 5 on the property once the green is raised/enlarged)
Medinah #2 - 8th Hole (Once trees are removed from left side of fairway, may become the second best Par 4 on the property)
Medinah #3 - 12th and 16th Holes (Both spectacular and spectacularly hard Par 4s)
Beverly - #5 - #17 - (Solid Par 4 with a great green and great Par 3 with a great green)
OFCCN - #3 (One of the best I've ever played
ChicagoGolf - #1 (Intimidating start at an intimidating place)
Glen Oak CC - #16  (Great Par 3)
Ruth Lake CC - #17 (Usually don't like holes with OB but I really like this one)
Dunes Club - #3 (I love this Par 5.  Great risk reward options and great strategy off the tee)
Lost Dunes - #11 (Spectacular Par 4 with an awesome green)
Butler Nat'l - #17 (Great Par 4 loaded with risk reward strategy when played from the right tees)
Inverness CC - #10 (Really good Par 4 with great raised green)
Butterfield CC - #4 (The Par 3 on the road on one of the nines.  Good golf hole with fun green)  
Floosmoor - #17 (One of the best around)

[Phil McDade]

Re: Flossmoor #13:  I would rank the par 3s at Flossmoor (best to "worst") as follows: tie 11 & 13, 2, 7.  While I really like 11, I think 13 is equally as good in its own way.  I must confess I am usually a sucker for short par 3s.  Lots of fun movement in the green which creates a lot of fun little (and hard!) pin placements, which is ok for a hole of that length.

George:

I'm not sure I'd agree with your characterization of 11 and 13 as equals at Flossmoor. I think Spion Kop (11) is a superior hole, by a good margin -- a really terrific par 3 with a great use of the natural land movement there. 13 of course is the newest hole there, and although I agree Hearn developed a solid green with some interesting pin positions on a neat green, I just don't see it in the same league. I like 7 -- a tough hole, although a bit out of character (added by Collis after the initial Tweedie routing) and I'd like to see some of the trees and shrubs cut back there. 2 is fine, but I'd rate them: 11.........................7........2...13.

Cheers!

[Sven Nilsen]

Pics

#3 at Pine Meadow


The photo doesnt really do it justice.   very demanding tee shot where do cut off as much lake as you can and still have to land in a narrow fairway.   Approach to a narrow green with a drop off in back.   A miss in either bunker is a sure bogey.

Mark:

I'm in the same camp as Pat on this one.  There are better par 4's on the course, including 10 (better green contours) and 17 (agree with Pat's assessment).  17 is a hole where the pin position may impact how you play it.  That sort of analysis does not exist on 3.  3 may have a heroic drive option, but the only advantage you get going into the green is a shorter distance, not a better angle.  I've never thought the risk of taking it over the hazard was worth the reward.

I also don't agree that being in the bunkers on 3 leads to a sure bogey.  They're not that deep, and when the pin is in the front you can use the upslope of the first half of a green to collect a ball down towards the flag.  In general, the bunkers at PM, especially when combined with the large size of the greens, are not very punitive.  I'm having a hard time thinking of a bunker shot that plays with the green running away from you (other than 10 playing towards the water). 

Sven

[Bill Seitz]

Pics

#3 at Pine Meadow

The photo doesnt really do it justice.   very demanding tee shot where do cut off as much lake as you can and still have to land in a narrow fairway.   Approach to a narrow green with a drop off in back.   A miss in either bunker is a sure bogey.

I've played PM a fair amount and #3 was always my least favorite hole. Just an awkward tee shot for me.

I think my favorite hole(s) at PM would be #15 and #16. #15 is a really cool par 4.5 with a fun tee shot and neat green site. #16 just has a fun classic vibe and I always really liked the second shot.

Just head back to the tips on #3 and you don't have to worry about cutting off any of the lake.    I think the hardest part about three is that if you do hit the green, it's not an easy two putt because the damn thing (like most greens at PM) is so big.  And they're usually slow.  Very tough hole, though.  

I actually like #18 a lot.  There's not much to see off the tee, so the tee shot looks tougher than it is.  Then a mid-iron or so over a pond that shouldn't be in play, but can still get into your head if you chunk it once in a while.  

I also don't see how #15 is a par 4.5.  It's a three shotter for almost everyone, though the blue tees are WAY up from the golds and blacks, but I usually play it from the golds (just short of the tips).  And if I play those tees, it's almost always three wood off the tee.  Not much advantage to a driver, and I can't reach the junk on the right with a three wood.  You're still hitting a 8, 9, or wedge into that green, and if the pin is up top and you leave it short, you're screwed.  

[Bill Seitz]

and 17 (agree with Pat's assessment).  17 is a hole where the pin position may impact how you play it.  That sort of analysis does not exist on 3.

17 is a par three.  I would hope pin position affects how you play it, since the green is 50 yards wide.  

I'm having a hard time thinking of a bunker shot that plays with the green running away from you (other than 10 playing towards the water).  

Sven

There are a few, but none that are super severe.  The right bunker on four to a front pin.  The left bunker on six, and the back left bunker on seven.  Either bunker on fifteen if the pin is up, but it's not that tough a shot, plus I haven't seen the pin on the front of fifteen in a few years now.  Could be just bad timing, I guess.  

[Sven Nilsen]

and 17 (agree with Pat's assessment).  17 is a hole where the pin position may impact how you play it.  That sort of analysis does not exist on 3.

17 is a par three.  I would hope pin position affects how you play it, since the green is 50 yards wide. 

Sorry, meant 16.

[George Freeman]

Pics

#3 at Pine Meadows


The photo doesnt really do it justice.   very demanding tee shot where do cut off as much lake as you can and still have to land in a narrow fairway.   Approach to a narrow green with a drop off in back.   A miss in either bunker is a sure bogey.

Mark - I haven't played the course, so this is just based on the pic, but it looks like a hole that every golf course in America has....

[Sven Nilsen]

Old thread from 2001 on the topic - http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,5027.0.html

Going to try to incorporate all of the nominations there into the list.

[Sven Nilsen]

Nominations from the old thread that are up for consideration and discussion:

Cog #4 - 4, 5 and 14 - note the conversation from the old thread was from before the latest changes
Skokie - 1, 11
Shoreacres - 4, 10
Onwentsia - 8, 18
OFN - 9, 13
Beverly - 16
Medinah #3 - 2, 13

[Scott McWethy]

Chicago GC   #1 & #11
Black Sheep GC   #12 & 25
Shoreacres   #4
Medinah (Course 3)   #4
Olympia Fields (North)   #3
Butler National   #9
Midlothian CC   #16

So many others, but these are the ones that I remember most.  Give me another ten minutes and I'll probably think of 20 more.

[Mark Chaplin]

Punchy describing the Dunes Club as Chicagoland when it's 73 miles and two states from Chicago!

[Sven Nilsen]

Hey Mark,

The Dunes Club may just fall outside of the technical definition of "Chicagoland" (a/k/a the Chicago Metro Area), but its closer than you'd think:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago_metropolitan_area.

Since most of the members of the club live in Chicago (or nearby), I'm pretty comfortable calling it a Chicagoland Club.

Going north, there are parts of Racine County, WI (technically part of Chicagoland) that are farther than 73 miles from the city. 

You probably forgot how big things are out here in the midwest.

Sven

[Howard Riefs]

I played The Highlands of Elgin on Friday for a wallet-friendly rate of $25 to walk during the week. Not bad for the #2 public course in the state, according to the recent Golfweek ranking.

The course has a number of real strong holes, particularly the new ones routed around the quarry. For me…

#7, par 3
Gold tees: 203 yards
Black tees: 253 yards
* Plays into prevailing wind

#11, par 4
Gold tees: 429 yards
Black tees: 471 yards
* Cape style
* Plays with the prevailing wind from behind


View from behind #8. Can see #7 green on left and #11 on right.




View from #11 tee

[Jud_T]

All I know is that I can't get a non-resident membership at either the Dunes Club or Lost Dunes, so they qualify in my book.

[Mark Chaplin]

Sven/Jud - Royal St George's draws 90% of its members from London/Surrey and is a similar distance from town, but you certainly wouldn't call it a London club. St Andrews is half the distance from Edinburgh and I've never heard it referred to as an Edinburgh must play! 

[Sven Nilsen]

Well Mark, perhaps different regions of the world have different ways of defining what "regional" means.

If someone asked you to name the closest metro area to New Buffalo, MI, what would the answer be?

[Jud_T]

Furthermore, one can post scores from the Dunes Club and Lost Dunes on the CDGA (Chicago District Golf Association) as local clubs for handicapping.  Arguably by this definition Spring Valley should not be included, even though it's only 5 minutes further than Shepherd's Crook.

[Terry Lavin]

I'm with Chaplin. If the thread were the 18 best in Southwest Michigan, I'd be chatting up Dunes Club and Lost Dunes. If I wanted to hear about Southern Wisconsin, I'd pay attention to Spring Valley and other Cheeseland favorites. Chicago and the so-called collar counties are big enough and possessed of enough great golf holes that it strikes me as silly to go to adjoining states to compile this sort of list.

[Sean_A]

Yes, "land" to me is the city and burbs.  No way I would include any course in Michigan as part of a suburb of Chicago.  Jeez, Toledo is about 55 miles from Detroit - does is count as Detroitland?  I don't even include Ann Arbor as part of metro Detroit and it can't be more than 40 miles away.  London is a huge city, but I wouldn't say Oxford (maybe 60 miles away) is part of greater London.  Maybe Chicago is special....

Ciao

[Sven Nilsen]

Yet another example of folks not reading from the beginning and just jumping in during the middle of the conversation.  The first post of the thread indicates we were using a broad definition of Chicagoland.

[David Whitmer]

#10 Shoreacres...love that Road hole
#5 Chicago GC...love the green on that short par 4
#10 Chicago GC...love the green on that "Short" par 3
#12 Chicago GC...great punch bowl green complex
#8 Skokie...stout par 4 with a fantastic large, undulating green
#17 Skokie...great raised green complex
#17 Butler National...as already mentioned

Those are the only Chicago-area tracks I have played, so the sample size is not large. But it is high-quality!

[Ian Andrew]

Holes I enjoyed:

Shoreacres #10, #11, #17
Olympia Fields South #1, #6
Glen View Club #3, #17
Olympia Fields North #3, #14

[Sean_A]

Yet another example of folks not reading from the beginning and just jumping in during the middle of the conversation.  The first post of the thread indicates we were using a broad definition of Chicagoland.

Sometimes a "broad" definition can rightly be construed as a mistaken definition - tee hee.

Ciao

[Jud_T]

Terry,

Point taken.  However, Chicago is a bit unusual.  The northern suburbs arguably now stretch from Evanston all the way to Milwaukee.  Plenty of people commute from Kenosha to downtown.  And from my house Spring Valley is 3 minutes closer than Beverly, even without Loop traffic...So you can limit it to Illinois courses if you like, but in practice it's a pretty fuzzy line.

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