If sand traps are hazards, then why...

[Matthew Essig]

do we have to rake them to be SO perfect?

What if you only built and put sand in a bunker and never raked it. Would it not be more hazardous and be fair because there would be a footprint or hole everywhere? In my opinion, many bunkers are not very hazardous.

[Matt Kardash]

Because the average person already finds it hard enough to play out of?

[Michael Underwood]

In my opinion it is to give the next competitor the same obstacle that you had.  Bunker in one condition for all and without foot prints for everyone in the bunker after the first player.

[Matthew Essig]

.

[Mark_Rowlinson]

If my memory serves me correctly, it was not until 1920 that Alwoodley Golf Club decided that the bunkers should be raked once a week. The club had been going since 1907. The nature of the bunkers bequeathed from the club's foundation was one of bunkers raised above the putting surface - they were hardy and tolerant soles who played golf there in its early years.

[Ronald Montesano]

A) Because it would be asinine. Really, it would.

B) The hazard would be ever-changing and an unsatisfied lout could vent his frustrations (or affect the field that followed him) by slamming the club repeatedly into the sand, creating pockets and orifices of untold penalty.

[archie_struthers]

 

Need to rake or a least clean with foot  as some creepy competitors would leave them worse on purpose !

[Matthew Essig]

I have heard that Pine Valley originally did not rake any of the bunkers.

At Sagebrush, you raked bunkers with your feet.

[Joe Bausch]

Didn't Nicklaus attempt to address this for one year at the Memorial by having different rakes?  Seemed like a nice 'middle ground' to me.

[Garland Bayley]

In my opinion it is to give the next competitor the same obstacle that you had.  Bunker in one condition for all and without foot prints for everyone in the bunker after the first player.

Donald Ross wrote that he would prefer a cavalry troop would ride through the bunkers before the commencement of play. That would give everyone the same obstacle.

  back at you!

[Garland Bayley]

A) Because it would be asinine. Really, it would.

B) The hazard would be ever-changing and an unsatisfied lout could vent his frustrations (or affect the field that followed him) by slamming the club repeatedly into the sand, creating pockets and orifices of untold penalty.

Which part of hazard don't you understand? Hit the ball in a water hazard, take a stroke. Hit the ball in a bunker hazard, what's wrong with taking a stroke to get out? Put the fear back in the bunker!

[Garland Bayley]

Here's a thought. Raking bunkers has caused the cost of golf to go up. Why?  Because of not being a feared hazard, they are benign artistic forms that architects put in willy nilly increasing costs. George Thomas wrote that any bunkers not placed for strategic purposes were unfair. Why? Because they penalized the average guy, but not the stick. Let's get back to strategic bunkers instead of aiming bunkers, penal bunkers, you name it bunkers.

[David_Tepper]

I guess it is time for the quarterly "bunkers are to easy" thread.

For the very best players in the world, bunkers are, on average, at least a 1/2 shot penalty. There are only a small number of PGA Tour golfers who have a sand save ratio greater than 50% over the course of a year. Remember, these guys are great putters as well, so some of those sand saves are coming from sinking 10'-15' putts, not from knocking their sand shots to tap-in distance.

My guess is, from the 10- to 15-handicap golfer, the penalty for hitting a ball into a bunker is at least a shot. For higher handicaps, it is more than a shot.

 

[Doug Siebert]

Yes, but what is their "rough save" percentage or "closely mown area save" percentage.  The bunkers aren't the cause of losing a 1/2 shot, missing the green is!

If we wanted to make bunkers more penal, we'd have to greatly cut back on the number of them.  Some courses have hundreds of bunkers, some holes have dozens.  I much prefer a hole that has a single bunker that makes you think and affects the play of the hole, whether its a solitary bunker in the middle of the fairway, or one that you have to negotiate in your approach, to holes that overdo it.  Some courses have bunkers on both sides of the fairway, because they want to pinch things in at the landing area.  Then as people get longer or new tees get built, they add more bunkers to where sometimes you see rows of 2-4 bunkers on each side of the fairway.  Then you have a half dozen bunkers practically surrounding the green, to account for people who miss it short in the middle or on either side, plus the pin high misses on either side, and sometimes a bunker in back just for good measure.

I liked Nicklaus' solution of the deep tined rakes, personally.

[John Kavanaugh]

Let's not forget that a well executed bunker shot is quite rewarding. It more than any other shot in golf rewards hard work and talent.

[Dan Herrmann]

Don't they forgo rakes at Pine Valley?

[Scott Warren]

Dan (and Matthew),

No rakes at PV. You smooth your club and foot marks with your foot and go on your merry way.

Who cares if the hazard is the same for all? It's a hazard. Bad things happen when you hit your ball in a hazard, so you're best to avoid them.

[Sam Morrow]

My home course was recently bought, we had a members meeting last week to talk about what we'd like to see. My course is about as well conditioned as anything in Houston but the thing that kept being mentioned by members was that our bunkers need to be more uniform.  Golfers want their bunkers perfect, golfers are stupid, it's a hazard.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Matt,

Read Bob Randquist's white paper on Bunkers/Hazards in the "My Opinion" section.

[Ronald Montesano]

You know, there is too much money being spent in golf and too many people are getting too wealthy at it, so I change my opinion. We SHOULD promote not raking bunkers. That will drive people away from the game and take some money out of it. Let's not stop there, though. If we don't replace divots, we'll save money on sand and seed. But wait, there's more. How about not repairing ball marks on greens? Why risk injury? Why make putting easy?

I'm sure that there are other ways to make golf so challenging that we drive enough people away to render the sport extinct. Give me some time and I'll think of them.

[Matthew Essig]

You know, there is too much money being spent in golf and too many people are getting too wealthy at it, so I change my opinion. We SHOULD promote not raking bunkers. That will drive people away from the game and take some money out of it. Let's not stop there, though. If we don't replace divots, we'll save money on sand and seed. But wait, there's more. How about not repairing ball marks on greens? Why risk injury? Why make putting easy?

I'm sure that there are other ways to make golf so challenging that we drive enough people away to render the sport extinct. Give me some time and I'll think of them.

I know that cost cutting is important, but fairways and greens are not hazards...

[Matthew Essig]

Dan (and Matthew),

No rakes at PV. You smooth your club and foot marks with your foot and go on your merry way.

Who cares if the hazard is the same for all? It's a hazard. Bad things happen when you hit your ball in a hazard, so you're best to avoid them.

+1

Exactly how I view it.

[Tommy Williamsen]

The nature of the bunkers bequeathed from the club's foundation was one of bunkers raised above the putting surface - they were hardy and tolerant soles who played golf there in its early years.

Mark, not sure I understand. Are you saying that there was a bunker higher in elevation than the green? Was it built up?

[Doug Siebert]

Let's not forget that a well executed bunker shot is quite rewarding. It more than any other shot in golf rewards hard work and talent.

Why is more rewarding than a well executed flop shot or half wedge from the fairway?  Or a perfectly struck drive (whether perfectly struck means 150 or 350 yards for you is irrelevant, if its hit as well as you can hit it, square and dead straight)

[archie_struthers]

 

Hey guys , let's get real about not smoothing out your footprints in bunkers  I started caddying at PV back in the 70's, and the hazards were rougher, as they didn't run the machines thru them very often. However , all the players were urged to repair whatever damage you caused in the traps as best you could with your . If someone left it unplayable we would jump in and fix the mess ourselves, in a competition of different foursomes it seems that fair play would dictate doing this.