How important is belt notching?

[Jason Topp]

It is important as you want it to be.  I am not going to tell someone else how to ejoy the game. 

[Anders Rytter]

It is important as you want it to be.  I am not going to tell someone else how to ejoy the game. 

Very well said

[Ken Moum]

It is important as you want it to be.  I am not going to tell someone else how to ejoy the game. 

Me either, but that doesn't mean I won't call them a pretentious doofus.

Just to be clear, if someone ahead of you on the golf course gets enjoyment out of spending six hours on the course, and believes that letting anyone play through ruins the flow of the round... you aren't going to have anything to say about the way they enjoy the game?

Riiight.

[JC Jones]

What an apt analogy.....

[Jud_T]

I am not going to tell someone else how to enjoy the game. 

no, just where....

[Terry Lavin]

Let me just say gently that belt notching is very important to a healthy handful hereabouts and if that floats their boat, I see no harm in it, unless abject access whoring is involved in the pursuit.

[Kirk Gill]

My attitude about belt-notching changes a lot from one day to another, based on all kinds of feelings like confidence or envy or a sense of what my priorities in life are, and what they should be. I've played a few courses here and there, and I've enjoyed that. At the same time I've played nothing remotely like the number of courses that many on this site have played. I hold fast to the idea that it's not a competition, but sometimes it feels like one, and I'm a huge loser in that game. When I think that way, I give in to envy and all of that. But what does one do when one makes only a decent living, and has a wife and four children to take care of? I understand responsibilities, and priorities, and most of the time fulfilling those makes me as happy as I can be, while a few other times they are a lodestone around my neck that prevents me from doing all kinds of things I'd like to do. In my world, playing the great courses of the world is more pipe dream than reality, but every once in a while those dreams come true. I'm at a stage in my life that playing golf at all, on any course, is a fairly rare treat, and I've learned to try and appreciate the architectural merits (and failings) of all sorts of inexpensive, local courses. One of the things that makes all of that more bearable is the ability to live vicariously through the photo essays of Ran, or Sean Arble, or Mark Saltzman, or the rest of you who post your pictures and share your experiences. Every once in a while a green bubble of envy bursts in my mind, but that never lasts, never makes much of a real impression. So what does belt notching mean? Well, as an attitude towards life I'm suspicious of it, but in the end all it is is a listing of experiences,  and maybe a wish list of further experiences to be lived. Ultimately, what's wrong with that?

[John Kavanaugh]

This thread has caused me to reflect on the times I have made rude and or ignorant comments towards people who search out and play every ranked course in their grasp.  I was and my still may be jealous.  It was my problem not yours.  I am a self loathing belt notcher.  Please accept my sincere apologies.

[Mark Smolens]

I'm fairly happy with the fact that since I've been better watching what I eat this year, I was able just now to put on my belt and notch it to the very last hole. 

Oops, you mean that's not what this thread is ?about

[Jason Topp]

It is important as you want it to be.  I am not going to tell someone else how to ejoy the game. 

Me either, but that doesn't mean I won't call them a pretentious doofus.

Just to be clear, if someone ahead of you on the golf course gets enjoyment out of spending six hours on the course, and believes that letting anyone play through ruins the flow of the round... you aren't going to have anything to say about the way they enjoy the game?

Riiight.

I will rip someone for causing me to have a six hour round, but that is because it affects me.  Belt notching does not. 

[Jason Topp]

My attitude about belt-notching changes a lot from one day to another, based on all kinds of feelings like confidence or envy or a sense of what my priorities in life are, and what they should be. I've played a few courses here and there, and I've enjoyed that. At the same time I've played nothing remotely like the number of courses that many on this site have played. I hold fast to the idea that it's not a competition, but sometimes it feels like one, and I'm a huge loser in that game. When I think that way, I give in to envy and all of that. But what does one do when one makes only a decent living, and has a wife and four children to take care of? I understand responsibilities, and priorities, and most of the time fulfilling those makes me as happy as I can be, while a few other times they are a lodestone around my neck that prevents me from doing all kinds of things I'd like to do. In my world, playing the great courses of the world is more pipe dream than reality, but every once in a while those dreams come true. I'm at a stage in my life that playing golf at all, on any course, is a fairly rare treat, and I've learned to try and appreciate the architectural merits (and failings) of all sorts of inexpensive, local courses. One of the things that makes all of that more bearable is the ability to live vicariously through the photo essays of Ran, or Sean Arble, or Mark Saltzman, or the rest of you who post your pictures and share your experiences. Every once in a while a green bubble of envy bursts in my mind, but that never lasts, never makes much of a real impression. So what does belt notching mean? Well, as an attitude towards life I'm suspicious of it, but in the end all it is is a listing of experiences,  and maybe a wish list of further experiences to be lived. Ultimately, what's wrong with that?

Nothing

[PThomas]

Bart,
I like lists...my mother used to make fun of me even as a relatively little kid because I would make lists of things, so its not surprising that I enjoy these ranking lists and follow them pretty closely. While I understand that the world of golf is a heck of a lot bigger than the USA, I've pretty much stuck to the US lists because I can't pretend to have the time or the budget to go globetrotting around the world trying to pick off golf courses. I do enjoy my golf trips both as a chance to see golf courses and various parts of the country. I do think I am more likely in the long run to play golf in all 50 US states than I am to see the entirety of any version of a top 100 list. At the same time, I do know that I've played 60 of the current Digest list and intend to keep trying to see the rest when I can. I've also played 22 other courses that make one of the other US top 100 lists (GW using composite numbers, GOLF, or Links) and enjoy seeking those out as well. I'm not so much worried about the destination, however, as much as the journey. And I like to think I'm pretty good about seeing other courses of interest to me as well--there are a good number of courses in my personal top 50 that are not on the Digest list, or perhaps even any list.

I actually admire your friend for his logic in not worrying about finishing the list. Of the 40 courses left on the Digest list, I expect I could see about 30 of them without too much trouble. There are another five that might take some effort, but are places I really want to see, and then there are a few that may never happen. I'm ok with that, because I've enjoyed the ride and have met a lot of wonderful people along the way. Perhaps if I get really close I'll change my mind about finishing, but only time will tell.

I imagine all that makes me a belt-notcher, and I'm ok with that.  

lots of smarts in your post Andy, thanks...

after spending time with my family, playing a good/great golf course (esp. for the first time) is my favorite hobby....I have a list of (almost) every course I've ever played...but I do not keep lists of my favorites played (for one, there's be too many/I'd have a hard time choosing!), or favorites by architect, etc...

Of course it is great to play courses on the Top 100 lists...but I've played many others not on them ...a recent and probably best example is Aiken Golf Club...my God , if that course was in Chicago I probably wouldnt want to play any other public course around here (which is also partially an indictment of the quality of public courses here)....Aiken is only 5,800 yds but plays a lot longer as several holes are uphill (walking it was pretty good exercise)...greens had contour, course had a Pinehurst feel...and all for $30 or so!!!!!  Golf needs more high quality/cheap courses liek Aiken so badly....

4 other courses of very high quality not on any top 100 list:  Rivermont, run by GCA's very own Chris Cupit (a super nice guy), Lookout Mountain, which is in a great setting and has some WICKED greens, Kirtland in Ohio, and Apache S., which is wonderful but sadly looked like abandoned when I played it a few winters ago.....meeting Chris and others like Mac Plumart, Pat Mucci and so many other great people have only made my travels that much more enjoyable

Like Andy said, if wanting to play cool courses makes me a belt notcher, than so be it

[Mike Hendren]

Good thoughts, mostly pro, here.

[John Kavanaugh]

It’s important that only one person has played them all. What’s not important is telling us.

[Mike Hendren]

It’s important that only one person has played them all. What’s not important is telling us.

+1

[Tommy Williamsen]

I am a belt notcher and have a dozen friends that have many notches in their belts. I love calling one of them and talking about a course we both have played. I enjoy playing some of the historic courses. I love comparing courses of the same architect. It is fun to see how Raynor built the Redan at different courses. At the same time, I enjoy playing a course nobody has ever heard of and seeing how it plays. I just like playing courses that are new to me.

[Bill Gayne]

Today I played Golf Magazines thirtieth ranked muni course in the USA and I'm guessing very few on the course knew that it was ranked on any type of list.

[Paul Rudovsky]

While I started playing this game in July 1955, I never heard of or went to GCA until about 10 years ago, so never saw this thread until today...and just finished reading all of it.


For better or worse (and like most things in life, probably a little of both) I am a classic belt notcher.  As a true Type A, I love having and completing lists, and of course, lists can only be completed step by step (or course by course).  Why do we try to complete a Top 100 list (or in my case every World and USA Top 100 list published by a reputable sourse)?...for the very same reason that thousands and thousands of folks run marathons, of and hundreds of folks have climbed Mt. Everest. Because they are there and as JFK once said...because it is hard!


Yes I have been fortunate in having access...but I did not start with it...I grew up playing munis in Queens NY.   That is one of the truly wonderful things about the game...despite it fairly blue blood history, access (especially today) is not limited to blue bloods.  And yes I have had a few of those 54 hole days (including one in mid-December in the northern hemisphere!) when I had one day and three courses left.  But I sense that I learned a lot in the process and played enough second and third tier courses to find a whole bunch of "hidden gems" including unknown tracks such as Royal Dornoch and North Berwick in 1981 (at least hidden to folks like me from the USA at that time).


But to me the most important thing about this game is the people one meets along the way.  The second most important thing is the places one gets to visit along the way.  And the people who play this game all have different reasons for playing it.  IMO those reasons are not right or wrong...so long as they do not step on someone else's foot in the process (as was pointed out earlier tin this thread).  So as a belt notchers, I am not going to sit here and criticize those non notchers who clog up their favorite courses by playing those courses so frequently  .


One last point...I have created my own bucket lists and completed many of them, for example:
---every course to EVER host a Men's, Women's, Men's Senior or Women's Senior Major
---every course to EVER host one of the Five Cups (Walker, Curtis, Ryder, Presidents, Solheim)
---every course to EVER host one of the USGA's 15 current National Championships.


If you think playing the US Girl's Junior or US Boys' Junior course from say 1950-1980 brings one to a whole bunch of "Top 100" courses, I suggest you go back and look at the courses that did host such events back then.  Real fun to me was playing Cedar Crest in South Dallas on November 6 2016...at 7am.  Not in best section of Dallas, Cedar Crest hosted the 1927 PGA Championship (won by some guy named Hagen) and was designed by A. W. Tillinghast when it was Cedar Crest Country Club..  The club closed in 1929 and was purchased by the city of Dallas in 1946, and remains a muni (or at least was in 2016).  I loved the course...and it was so much fun seeing its "superb bones" still clearly visible such as on its long par 4 10th hole.  So belt-notching bucket lists is not necessarily just playing the Cypress Points, Winged Foots, et al of the world.  I found (and still find) that seeing and playing a great variety of tracks really makes one understand the game more and better.  But that does not matter except to me.  We all have our own personal "objective functions" and as the old expression goes :"WHATEVER WORKS".

[Craig Sweet]

I can't take the pressure...

[Jeff_Brauer]

Interesting old thread.  I was always taught that if I gave money to charity to get recognition, i.e., name on a library or many or lesser recognitions, that I was giving it for the wrong reason.  I think this is similar but hard to separate cleanly. 


However, if you are playing a course to get up to X of the top 100, it is probably for the wrong reason.  If you are playing for enjoyment or as a gca nerd, because you are continuing your pursuit of just knowing and learning, then you are okay.


As to Tom Doak's point, isn't there something you can learn from almost any course relative to design?

[John Kavanaugh]

Learn? I’ve been on this site for a couple of decades and see little evidence of anyone learning anything.

[Niall C]

As to Tom Doak's point, isn't there something you can learn from almost any course relative to design?

Totally agree. Sometimes seeing something that doesn't work helps you to appreciate something that does and perhaps why it does.


As to belt notching, I suspect each of us are on our own personal journey to root out and see specific courses even if those courses aren't (all) Top 100. I know I am.


Niall

[Jeff_Brauer]

As to Tom Doak's point, isn't there something you can learn from almost any course relative to design?

Totally agree. Sometimes seeing something that doesn't work helps you to appreciate something that does and perhaps why it does.


Niall

Or perhaps more accurately, seeing something that works well but differently than you had assumed it should.  Or something specific, like our recent discussion on small greens.  It could be an eye opener to see a small green on a public course absolutely destroyed by ballmarks and then say, "Now I know why this green is bigger than the shot value calls for."


Just an example.  However, professional golf architects basically are continually learning, often from their own mistakes, or better yet, when possible, from the mistakes of other architects before I make that mistake.

[Paul Rudovsky]

Jeff--


I have long believed that I have learned much more from my mistakes that my (few) successes.  Absolutely believe that is true in business and life in general, so would also expect that your point is very well taken.

[Charlie Goerges]

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