[Sean_A]

Sven

See, nothing around Detroit!  I think golf in the Detroit Metro area grew with the car industry and so money was spent where car execs lived - private courses in the burbs. 

I wonder why UofM is listed as public - its not what I would say is a public course.  In any case, I will be frank and say GW (and Doak) is miles off with the course.  It is better than Belvedere, Lakewood Shores (I like both of these very much) and anything at Treetops.  I know I have said it before, but if you are near Detroit looking for a game - UofM beats nearly all of the privates and all of the proper publics.  I just have to chalk down difference of opinion with GW as rater stupidity - tee hee.

Ciao 

[Jud_T]

Sean,

Just wait till Mike gets done restoring it.  I'll be up there in the fall but last I heard all they had so far was a long term plan.

[PThomas]

Sean,

Just wait till Mike gets done restoring it.  I'll be up there in the fall but last I heard all they had so far was a master plan.

as in Mike Devries Jud?  that would be cool...a decent course already..

[Jud_T]

yup

[Phil McDade]

Dave:

Took the liberty of breaking your list down into groups (ratings of 5 or higher):

8.5's - Chicago, Old Elm, Shoreacres

8's - Butler, Medinah 3, OFN,

7.5's - Beverly, Skokie

7's - Black Sheep, Butterfield, Exmoor, Flossmoor,

6.5's - OFS, North Shore, Knollwood, Glen View,

6's - Rich Harvest, Merit, Cog #4, Bull Valley, Briarwood

5.5's - Barrington Hills, Bob O'Link, Cantigny, Conway Farms, Edgewood Valley, Glen Club, Kemper, La Grange, Medinah 1, Pine Meadow, Thunderhawk, Glen Ellyn, Wynstone

5's - Evanston, Glen Oaks, Lake Shore, Northmoor, Onwentsia, Orchard Valley, Prairie Landing, Ravisloe, Sunset Ridge, Westmoreland

Thanks Sven. Like all creators of lists, I think mine is 100% dead nuts right!

Pretty close, but you do have Shepherd's Crook way to low.

A guess, but the opening question of this thread may be why:

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,29788.0.html

[Jud_T]

I'd probably prefer Old Elm day to day at my age and ability to Chicago Golf as well.  But are we talking about favorites or best?  And it doesn't beat Shoreacres on either score IMO...

[Phil McDade]

Shivas:

The Doak scale doesn't really mentioning traveling to courses until level 7 (7: An excellent course, worth checking out if you get anywhere within 100 miles...) You don't see Shepherd's Crook as being either 5  (A good course to choose if you're in the vicinity and looking for a game...) or 6 (A very good course, definitely worth a game if you're in town...)?  Is this a case of "Chicago's-rich-in-Doak 4, 5, and 6's" on the public side, and thus SC gets downgraded due to its location? Stick that course in Madison (maybe even Milwaukee sans Erin Hills), and it's easily the best public option for miles.

[Sean_A]

Sven

See, nothing around Detroit!  I think golf in the Detroit Metro area grew with the car industry and so money was spent where car execs lived - private courses in the burbs. 

I wonder why UofM is listed as public - its not what I would say is a public course.  In any case, I will be frank and say GW (and Doak) is miles off with the course.  It is better than Belvedere, Lakewood Shores (I like both of these very much) and anything at Treetops.  I know I have said it before, but if you are near Detroit looking for a game - UofM beats nearly all of the privates and all of the proper publics.  I just have to chalk down difference of opinion with GW as rater stupidity - tee hee.

Ciao 

The difference is that Michigan has WAY more vacation-type courses than Illinois due to the overall prettiness of the state relative to the flat corn fields of Illinois.  Half (at least) of that Michigan public list exists for vacation golfers. 

Shivas

Yes, Michigan has a reputation for holiday golf (I bet originally generated by car folks) and for the most part at very reasonable fees.  That is the benefit of a state compromised of dos muy largo peninsulas.  It would be interesting to know the number of round played on publics for the Detroit area compared to up north.  Even so, with a rep and folks demonstrating a willingness to travel upstairs, there aren't that many very good publics.  In a little exercise I did with those who know Michigan courses quite well the only two publics to make top 10 in the state were Arcadia and Marquette Golf Club.  Although Belvedere, Lakewood Shores Gailes and Wilderness Valley Black did quite well.  Interestingly, Belvedere is the only classic course.   

Ciao   

[Sven Nilsen]

Phil, that's a fair point.  It's bumble from me...

That said, I think it's somewhat of a faux links and there are some lame holes out there.  It's got sort of the same thing going that Shoreacres and Pebble have (a few lame holes), but the difference is that it doesn't have the all-world holes to make up for it, or the cool overall feel of a great course...so maybe it's a 5, assuming you're actually IN the vacinity...

SC may be a faux links (from what I've heard, the nearest ocean is a good distance from the course), but its pretty high on the scale of approaching the real thing.  They don't overwater it  Harborside), the fairways aren't runways (Bolingbrook) and the ground game is always an option (see any other course in the area that demands an aerial game).

Just as Ravisloe should no longer be compared to the private courses in town with their private course maintenance budgets, lets not start comparing a small town muni to two of the best courses in the country.  For what it is, and what it was built to be, its pretty damn good.

As for the comparison to Arlington Lakes, I would think that you of all people would be able to look past superficial similarities.  Two of the hardest approaches at SC are to a front left pin on 1 and a back left pin on 2.  There's alot going on on these two holes despite the "ease you in" lack of length. 

[George Freeman]

The difference is that Michigan has WAY more vacation-type courses than Illinois due to the overall prettiness of the state relative to the flat corn fields of Illinois.

Dave - just go ahead and finish the statement properly:  ...due to the overall prettiness of the state of MI relative to the overall ugliness of the state of IL...  

I have the right to say that being a product of the Mitten while living in the state of Chicago.

[Simon Holt]

Bumped for Simon Holt.

Thanks Dave.  Member Guest last week so missed all of this.  Cool thread and good timing!

[Niall Hay]

yup

Any more detail?

[Jud_T]

yup

Any more detail?

Niall,

From Mike's response on the U of M thread:

we will be looking at restoring the green margins back out to their original sizes.  For instance, the  famous 6th with its two-tier, wraparound green is about half the size of its original 10,000+ size.  Looking back at the aerials to 1937, the back half of the green is substantially larger and will be awesome once it is restored, offering lots of pins, more fun options, and much improved agronomics with the spread of wear.  Bunker style will follow MacKenzie's tenets again, instead of the generic, simplified bunkering that is evident on much of the course.  Tree management will continue to be an issue, with some trees already removed last spring (spruces behind #5G, #7G and #10G) and pruning taking place.  The teams have a new practice facility that was begun before I was involved - new building, range redone, etc. for their use only, not the public's.  Due to the use of the course for college players, I have looked for ways to lengthen the course and provide them with some additional length and I have a solution that will bring the course over 7000 yards at par 70 and require them to hit something besides a W-8i into a par four.  These tees will be for their use and tournaments, not for everyday use, but they add length in the right spots to challenge players and not affect the regular tees as well as keep the character of the course intact and fun to play for the average player.

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