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Joe Bausch

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Those of you that attended the winter GCA fest I organized earlier in the year at Paxon Hollow know that I made a nice discovery late last year of early golf articles from a magazine called Philadelphia Golfer.  The stash I found contained articles from late 1925 until early 1930.

Gathering these articles was time consuming (and not cheap, either).

On this thread I'll occasionally present an article I find of interest.  With the recent bickering going on over on the Cobb's Creek thread, I thought the first article I would put up here would be from the May, 1928 issue of the magazine that talks about Cobb's Creek getting ready for the upcoming US Publinx.



« Last Edit: May 19, 2012, 03:56:09 PM by Joe Bausch »
@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

DMoriarty

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Re: selected articles from Phila Golfer magazine
« Reply #1 on: May 18, 2012, 02:57:16 PM »
Thanks for the article Joe.   Not surprisingly those in Philadelphia were quite fond of their course, and were quite willing to speak of the fondness of others as well.

You've researched quite a bit so let me ask you . . .

1. During the first few decades of Cobb's existence, do you really believe there was anything close to a national consensus as to which was the best public course in the country.

2. During the same time period, was any single course "known" across the country as the best public course?

3. Have you found articles from other locales, say from Omaha or Los Angeles or Seattle or Anaconda or anywhere else, proclaiming that Cobb's Creek was widely recognized as the "best" public course in the country?  

Thanks.  

Golf history can be quite interesting if you just let your favorite legends go and allow the truth to take you where it will.
--Tom MacWood (1958-2012)

Joe Bausch

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Re: selected articles from Phila Golfer magazine
« Reply #2 on: May 18, 2012, 03:12:00 PM »
Sorry, but I'm not going to be further involved on this "was Cobb's the best" topic.
@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

DMoriarty

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Re: selected articles from Phila Golfer magazine
« Reply #3 on: May 18, 2012, 03:30:44 PM »
I don't want to further discuss "was Cobb's the best" either.  It has been discussed plenty in the past, and there is no use going further.

But this isn't about "was Cobb's the best," which is a matter of opinion.  My questions are a bit different.  I want to know, in your research, whether you can honestly say that there was any sort of consensus about such things as the best public course in the country.   Was any single course "known" as the best?

Finding articles is great, but to understand them we have to consider the context.  Does a Philadelphia article in a Philadelphia magazine hyping a Philadelphia course written by the chairman of the Press Committee for a Philadelphia tournament really establish that the Philadelphia course was "known as the best" in anywhere other than Philadelphia?   

Whether you answer or not, we both know that you've done enough research to realize that claiming any single course was "known" as the best public in the country during that early era is preposterous.  You know as well as I do that  when that article was written Cobb's Creek in Philadelphia was not "known as the best public course in the country by golfers in Dallas, Texas!   
Golf history can be quite interesting if you just let your favorite legends go and allow the truth to take you where it will.
--Tom MacWood (1958-2012)

Dan Herrmann

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Re: selected articles from Phila Golfer magazine
« Reply #4 on: May 18, 2012, 09:16:51 PM »
It's great to look back at the early days of the Public Links, back before it was to become dominated by college golfers.  Many of these guys were laborers, craftsmen - the "ordinary" working men of their day.  Think of their joy to be able to take advantage of the nice activities surrounding the event.

I especially like how Pine Valley opened its doors for some of the contestants. 

(PS - PV is hosting the Philly Open on July 23 this year)
« Last Edit: May 18, 2012, 09:20:10 PM by Dan Herrmann »

TEPaul

Re: selected articles from Phila Golfer magazine
« Reply #5 on: May 18, 2012, 10:16:15 PM »
Joe:

Wonderful article there. I would have to say that the first two paragraphs of that article even though written in a style that is a bit Max Behrian state in no uncertain terms that Cobbs Creek was without question by consensus opinion widely known as the best public course in the country. Wouldn't you agree?

And that Joe Coble!! What a stud. Is that thing on the top of his head a cap or is it his DO? That guy could hit the joints in North Philly right now and "git it down, git it on" and rap with the best of them. Just looking at his mouth in that photo it looks to me like he's saying "You my HO!"

DMoriarty

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Re: selected articles from Phila Golfer magazine
« Reply #6 on: May 18, 2012, 11:26:11 PM »
High regard in a promotional piece by the Chairman of the Tournament Press Committee establishes that the course was known  as the best course in the country?   It has the makings of a Saturday Night Live skit.  Might as well have said that Mike Cirba thinks it was the best course in the country, therefore it was known as the best course in the country.

With logic like this, "best course in the country" must have been about as common as "best Mom ever."
« Last Edit: May 18, 2012, 11:30:15 PM by DMoriarty »
Golf history can be quite interesting if you just let your favorite legends go and allow the truth to take you where it will.
--Tom MacWood (1958-2012)

Joe Bausch

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Re: selected articles from Phila Golfer magazine
« Reply #7 on: May 19, 2012, 03:53:23 PM »
In this Philadelphia Golfer magazine (August, 1928) was a full page article by someone you might have heard of:  Joe Dey.  The title of the piece was "Cobbs Creek Roused City".

Since I fear some people may have trouble reading and comprehending xerox copies, let me transcribe what Mr. Dey wrote in the 6th, 7th, and 8th paragraphs:

     Jesse T. Vogdes, now deceased, was chief engineer of the Park Commission.  He requested Robert W. Lesley, then president of the Golf Association of Philadelphia, to name a committee to assist in the designing and construction of the course.  The committee named by Mr. Lesley was composed of A.H. Smith, George C. Klauder, J. Franklin Meehan, Dr. Simon Carr, George Arthur Crump and Hugh I. Wilson.
  
     All of these men had been long engaged in the in the construction and maintaining of private courses and lent their aid cheerfully to Philadelphia's first venture in public course golf.

     Crump, who died soon after, was the creator of the famous Pine Valley course at Clementon, N.J., across the river from Philadelphia, and Wilson, who died a few years ago, had built Merion's championship east course.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2012, 03:59:53 PM by Joe Bausch »
@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

Neil_Crafter

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Nice stash Joe. :D
Anything in there about Melrose?

Dan Herrmann

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Joe - what other tidbits do you have?   No details needed, just general info.

We were excited about this news during the winter meeting, and this just whets the appetite!


Joe Bausch

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Nice stash Joe. :D
Anything in there about Melrose?

There are some Melrose articles, but nothing to really add to the discussion.
@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

Joe Bausch

  • Karma: +0/-0
Joe - what other tidbits do you have?   No details needed, just general info.

We were excited about this news during the winter meeting, and this just whets the appetite!



Many other neat tidbits Dan.  But I do have a day job.  ;)

In due time, I think.
@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

Tom MacWood

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Joe
I'm not sure how I missed this the first go round, but I just discovered it.

Why would you put more stock in a 1928 article, written thirteen years after the fact, than the numerous contemporaneous news reports?

Dey was seven years old in 1914, and living in New Orleans. His reported committee members do not match the reports of 1914, 1915 and 1916 in the local papers. In early 1915 William Evans reported that Hugh Wilson, AH Smith and Jiggs Klauder were in charge of laying out the course. And in 1916, after the course was completed, at the annual GAP meeting, Wilson, Smith, Klauder and Winthrop Sargent were commended for their work in developing the golf course at CC. There is no evidence Crump, Thomas, Flynn, Meehan, and Travis were involved in the design, and unfortunately despite some evidence he was involved, Sargent is excluded. I guess he is not a big enough name.

Joe Bausch

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I'll let Mike address your latest post TMac (gosh I so look forward to more of your constructive criticism).

I believe Tom MacWood is really confusing the site selection and routing of the golf course between spring 1913 to April 1915 from the physical construction and subsequent grow-in which began April 1915 and ended with the course opening in late May 1916. 
 
I think sometime after the course was routed and construction began guys like Crump became less involved, and I think most of the construction effort was led by Wilson, Smith, and Klauder, with Flynn shaping.   I also think Meehan was probably as much a grass guy as anything at that time. 
 
MacWood's selective use of a few articles to drive  an agenda instead of trying to understand all of them in total is really poor analysis in my opinion.  He really seems to have no idea how collaborative efforts worked, but instead is so focused on naming "the architect" that evidence outside of that knee-jerk predisposition of his either gets ignored or purposefully re-cast as something it's not.
 
In this case, I think that MacWood won't acknowledge that Crump was part of the design team whose involvement probably levelled off once construction started simply because he's spent years trying to tell everyone that Crump only constructed to other's plans, and wasn't a designer in his own right.  That would fly in the face of Joe Dey's statement that all of the men on the committee were picked for their previous design and construction experience, but he'll just ignore Dey and say the article was written years later.
 
Here again are the contemporaneous materials about Crump (and others) as provided on the other thread...
 
In spring of 1913, shortly after the Merion East course opened for play the previous autumn, but while Merion West is still under construction, Robert Lesley names a committee of experienced men to search Fairmount Park in Philadelphia to find a place for a public course.   Later in spring 1913 this group recommends a site in Cobb's Creek park;
 


Once the site for the course is located, we see that "experts" in course design and construction will be responsible for the golf course.  This group has a routing plan together by the spring of 1914, which gets approved by April 1915.
 


From the actual Golf Association of Philadelphia (GAP) meeting minutes of January 1915, we learn of the group members.   Ironically, Hugh Wilson's name is somehow omitted here, although it does appear in many other news reports, as well as in other GAP meeting minutes.
 

 
Shortly before the course opened, this article again lists the members of the committee appointed by Lesley, giving Hugh Wilson credit for drawing the first "tentative" plans for the course which we know went through a number of revisions;
 

 
An article by "Joe Bunker" about changes to Philmont Country Club (which Hugh Wilson was responsible for) again lists some of the "experts" who were responsible for Cobb's Creek.   The person in question was Ellis Gimbel of Philmont.
 

 
And, most ironically perhaps, given the acrimonious, personality-based rancor exhibited here recently,
 

 
The following 1928 article by Joe Dey, former head of the USGA, addresses both the men responsible for Cobb's Creek, the reason they were selected for the job, as well as the number of rounds played there up until that point, all found by Joe Bausch in the Philadelphia Golfer Magazine and posted in part in another recent thread by Indiana Joe(nes);
 

 
I would also point out that there are not one, but two articles indicating that Walter Travis had been spending time helping out at Cobb's Creek, and both are seen on page 63 of the book.   The first mentions that, "most of his (Travis) time has been given to assisting in the laying out of public and others courses such as Cobb's Creek and Halloween Park and Pine Valley."   The second, from January 1916 in the Philadelphia Inquirer states:
 
"Walter J. Travis has spent a good deal of time lately in making suggestions as to notable public courses, especially at Cobb's Creek and Halloween Park, Stamford.  It will be recalled that the late Mayor Gaynor, of New York , drafted him two or three times in a like capacity for Metropolitan courses.”
 
Later I wrote;
 
"From the descriptions of Travis’s involvement at Cobb’s Creek from December 1915 and January 1916, it’s difficult to tell exactly what architectural work he did.   We do know that the routing of the course was completed as early in April 1915, and built along those lines.   We also know, however, that the course was originally scheduled to open in September 1915, and that by December, Travis is described as spending “most of his time assisting with the laying out of…Cobb’s Creek…”   One could reasonably imagine that at this point, the local “experts” were only to happy to have Travis and his expertise onsite to help with both agronomic and drainage issues, as well as the possible finalizing of design features such as internal green details and other earthmoving details."
 
Now, I have to laugh when I consider that in other select cases a few here have argued that when a group of novices brought in an expert like Travis for advice, that would lead a select few here to want to give Travis sole design credit!  ;)  ;D    Here, the book just notes that he was involved in the project in its later stages of construction.  'Nuff said.
 
In the case of George Thomas, no one is saying he designed Cobb's Creek, or that he was part of the committee that did.   However, we did think his onsite time amounted to a mention, particularly since Thomas himself said he learned a great deal from Hugh Wilson by watching him at Merion and Cobb's Creek.   Here is what I wrote in that regard;
 
"It also seems that Thomas spent a good deal of time at Cobb’s Creek with Hugh Wilson.   Geoff Shackelford, who wrote the definitive biography of Thomas, “The Captain”, writes; “Thomas spent considerable time studying Hugh Wilson’s work during the construction of Merion Cricket Club’s East Course in 1912, its West Course in 1914, and at a municipal course in Philadelphia , now Cobb’s Creek.”
 
"Thomas himself wrote, “I always considered Hugh Wilson of Merion , Pennsylvania as one of the best of our golf architects, professional or amateur (note the early need for distinction).  He taught me many things at Merion and the Philadelphia Municipal (Cobb’s Creek) and when I was building my first California courses, he kindly advised me by letter when I wrote him concerning them.”..."
 
Then, given that Thomas had already done some limited design work of his own at that point at Marion (MA), Whitemarsh Valley, and Spring Lake, I surmised;
 
"...We also know that like other members of the “ Philadelphia School ”, George Thomas was a “naturalist”, whose own design work in California set new standards for blending the hand of man into the native environment.    While we will likely never know the extent of Thomas’s actual input to the final design of Cobb’s Creek, it seems likely that his opinion was sought, valued, and considered by Hugh Wilson and his other friends in the Philadelphia School who collaboratively designed the course.  It also seems that he spent a good deal of time there and that he considered it time well spent furthering his education in golf course architecture."
 
The book also contains a lot of information detailing William Flynn's role as the lead shaper, but one article notes that he made a trip to New England to study the famous courses there looking for ideas to bring to the Cobb's project.
 
And finally, I'm not sure if there's a reading comprehension problem among some, but the Opening Day article in the book not only calls Ben Sayers, "The Instructor" in the caption of a photo, but also states, ""Benny" Sayers, the professional, who will have charge of instruction...".   We don't know how long Mr. Sayers acted in this role.   Horace Gamble became the pro for many years around the same time.
@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

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