[Steve_ Shaffer]

The lawyers seem to be doing well:

http://www.courierpostonline.com/article/20120401/NEWS01/304010026/Woodcrest-Country-Club-faces-battle-over-future

[Joe Bausch]

5 nice par 3's at Woodcrest:

#3.  173 yards









#5.  153 yards.











#7.  207 yards (the first bunker is well short of the green).











#13.  uphill and 190 yards.









And my favorite of them all,

#17.  181 yards.












I think my photo album of Woodcrest is pretty good:

http://xchem.villanova.edu/~bausch/images/albums/woodcrest/

[Patrick_Mucci]

Steve & Joe,

I always liked the golf course.

The collection of par 3's is terrific.

The worst thing a private club can do is incur significant debt.
But clubs get caught up with either keeping up with the Jones's or trying to be all things to all members.

Pay as you go is the best, and should be the only policy

[David Cronheim]

I really hadn't heard much about Woodcrest until I gave a presentation on membership structures to the NJ Golf Course Owners Assn back in December. One of the attendees was the membership director at Woodcrest and we had a great conversation about the club. It sounded to me based on what she told me that the club was actually in a more stable position than the article might suggest.

[Patrick_Mucci]

David,

With $ 10,000,000 to $ 11,800,000 in debt how can any club be in a stable situation, especially in this economy.

The membership director might be part of the reason that the club got themselves into this difficulty in the first place.

Denial never helps a patient deal with a crisis and find a cure.

[Dan Byrnes]

I thought it was interesting that the asst. manager and her husband donated 700k to keep the place going?  There has to be a story there?  Also revenue seems low for that many members in an expensive are like Cherry Hills?

Perhaps it's a land play, other wise the bank should take there beating and move on and that 700k would be better used as a downpayment for the next owners?  The land is worth more as for alternative use I imagine.

I know why these clubs were created across religious and racial divides but it seems  from my experience that business model no longer works.  With the increase in annual costs and society not being so divided by religion as well as new generations of those groups not being as aligned as previous generations were that it just doesn't work anymore even in a good economy.

The traditional Jewish clubs in my area, Jewish folks would be the minority, same as the Italian club, the WASP club and so on.

[David Cronheim]

David,

With $ 10,000,000 to $ 11,800,000 in debt how can any club be in a stable situation, especially in this economy.

The membership director might be part of the reason that the club got themselves into this difficulty in the first place.

Denial never helps a patient deal with a crisis and find a cure.

Pat,

Agreed with in so far as the debt load is not a good place to be. My observation was limited only to something along the lines of - the plan they had right the ship was reasonable and seemed doable. Of course, I did not have firsthand details, but the article certainly paints a more pessimistic view than I had anticipated. Either way, I wish them all the luck in the world pulling out of it.

[mike_malone]

 Should we do an outing before it disappears

[Joe Bausch]

Should we do an outing before it disappears

If their 'member for a day' rate is 125 bucks, what will an outing charge be?

[Patrick_Mucci]

David,

On a return trip, after the clubhouse renovation, the first words that came to mind, were:

What the F--K are they thinking about ?
Why did they build this Taj Mahal ?
For what reason ?  For what purpose ?

It was so extravagant, so out of scale for the community, I just didn't understand the thinking.

When you spend that kind of money to "refurbish" a clubhouse, you'll NEVER get it back, especially when you add carrying charges to the cost of the project.

If you fund it on a pay as you go, you'll get complaints and some resignations, but you won't get financial ruin unless the operational costs eat you alive.

This was a bad idea, encouraged and promoted by a misguided leadership and membership, and that's unfortunate because it's a good golf course. 

[David Cronheim]

As I mentioned, I've never been there, but I'm sorry to hear that. Hopefully things will turn around...

[Jim Sherma]

This is sad but seemingly becoming more and more common - Blue Ridge in Harrisburg was just bought out by the same land group that owns Colonial - I guess the plan is a 2 course semi-public club, they are within a mile or two of each other. Blue Ridge was the old Jewish club and I had not hears of any issues with them. Colonial followed the standard "incur debt doing a course and clubhouse upgrade and then scare off the membership once they start getting assessed" but Blue Ridge seemed quite buttoned down as far as excess expenditures. I had heard of Woodcrest when I worked in Philly and it would be sad if it ceased to be, from the looks of it there are so many other courses that should be eliminated before it based solely on merit.

[Sam Morrow]

 I didn't get to play it when I was there in June but walked part of the course and from what I saw wasn't overly impressed and conditioning at the time was very iffy.

[Mark McKeever]

I may need to make a trip across the river soon to see the course.

Mark

[archie_struthers]

  .

Grew up five minutes from Woodcrest, started caddying there in 1967. It was the richest course n the area , very Jewish , and quite a place. I was 11 years old and never played golf, but my friends and I all looped there as kids. More funny caddy stories emanated at Woodcrest , as working there was boot camp for many future loopers at Pine Valley.

It's a good golf course, with lots of vintage Flynn on a small piece of ground.  There are some nice elevation changes , unusual for South Jersey. I'd say it's an easy golf course, but quite fun. In that respect it's a lot like Atlantic City CC was before the Doak redo in 2000. Some smallish greens help defend par and a natural creek that winds thru the property can definitely mess with those who don't have local knowledge. The abundance of doglegs might  be a turn off for some, as they make for some club selections other than driver on some tee shots. I'm ok with them.

They reversed the nines some years ago to make the finale a good par five. I liked it the old way.


P.S      the half way house at Woodcrest had the best food I have ever eaten to this day

[Steve_ Shaffer]

It's not looking good. NLE on the horizon?

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/new_jersey/20120512_.html?cmpid=124488469

[Ed Brzezowski]

Eight mil for a clubhouse redo and a 125 guest fee ?

What are these guys smoking? Shame to see it  go but looks like a case of mismanagement.

[Bill Shotzbarger]

I played a GAP match in Marlton today and my opponent said that 10 years ago he couldn't even get on Woodcrest...Personally, I'd like to check it out this summer if the end is indeed near.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Perhaps investors will make an offer. Still not looking good.

http://www.courierpostonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2012305110022

[Dan Herrmann]

The new owner could get a mini-windfall if they took 95% of the trees out and sold them for lumber.   The course is seriously overgrown.

Unfortunately, there are some bunkers converted to grass in the trees - the original Flynn lines have been lost.

That said, there's a really good golf course buried under all those trees, and I hope it can be saved.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

I think the management at Woodcrest is way off on their $125 "Member for a Day" fee.

LuLu's public fee is now $58 weekdays and $78 weekends/holidays. That's about right for  the market these days. A little lower would be better. 

[Ed Brzezowski]

Hope  Dr Joe photographed it recently.

You Phillyguys think this year is Lu Lu's. Swan song?

I hope not,grew up around there and always loved the layout.

[Joe Bausch]

Hope  Dr Joe photographed it recently.

I did Ed, about two falls ago.

http://xchem.villanova.edu/~bausch/images/albums/woodcrest/

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